State of Jefferson (San Francisco, Redding, Eureka: section 8, home, construction)

[Electric Blue]

Just so we are on record. The liberals on here now consider social security,veterans programs and medicare to be welfare.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Electric Blue

Just so we are on record. The liberals on here now consider social security,veterans programs and medicare to be welfare.

Well if that's the case I have cause to rejoice since the liberals love to expand the benefits of welfare. As a veteran drawing Social Security and on Medicare all I can say is, "Break out the champers!"

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Electric Blue

Just so we are on record. The liberals on here now consider social security,veterans programs and medicare to be welfare.

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Well if that's the case I have cause to rejoice since the liberals love to expand the benefits of welfare. As a veteran drawing Social Security and on Medicare all I can say is, "Break out the champers!"

Yes. What else would you call those programs? They are social insurance to serve the welfare of defined segments of society.

wel·fare/ˈwelˌfe(ə)r/

Noun:

• The health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
• Statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need.

I receive benefits from SS and the VA as compensation for multiple permanently disabling damages sustained on multiple occasions in combat service on behalf of the government. What I receive is vastly greater than my cash investment over the years. Did you have an option to pay into my VA compensation / insurance? Uh, no. My welfare was forced on you. And, seeing how as G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz and cadre all take checks for their "service" to the nation -- I don't feel a bit bad about taking mine. But then, I don't mind sacrificing myself to live in a society that benefits all members -- even whiners who don't think they should have to share the costs of living in a free society that promotes life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[TrueTimbers]

Medicare and SS are socialist programs is the point... Don't you conservative oppose all socialist programs? Or just the ones you personally do not benefit from?

On natural resource extraction and the crash of logging.... If one needs to place blame, it should be
on the corporations that were harvesting in non sustainable methods!!!!! One should thank the "environmentalists" for stopping them. Know we can have tourism, recreation AND logging with quality management practices so we can have a logging industry that lasts for the long haul. Which is better than the Lemming like behaviour of the past. Boom and bust practices only bennifit the corporation that raped the land and ran.. Local residents get temporary work, and have to deal with the collapsed economy and the cleanup.

[Electric Blue]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

Medicare and SS are socialist programs is the point... Don't you conservative oppose all socialist programs? Or just the ones you personally do not benefit from?

On natural resource extraction and the crash of logging.... If one needs to place blame, it should be
on the corporations that were harvesting in non sustainable methods!!!!! One should thank the "environmentalists" for stopping them. Know we can have tourism, recreation AND logging with quality management practices so we can have a logging industry that lasts for the long haul. Which is better than the Lemming like behaviour of the past. Boom and bust practices only bennifit the corporation that raped the land and ran.. Local residents get temporary work, and have to deal with the collapsed economy and the cleanup.

People have planned their lives around social security and to a lesser degree medicare. They didn't create the program,yet have to pay into it. Personally I would like to see more choice in both programs. It is your side who opposes any even modest. Still,it is idiotic to compare programs you pay into,like social security,to people who never worked collecting welfare and food stamps. Not even mentioning veterans programs.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Electric Blue

Just so we are on record. The liberals on here now consider social security,veterans programs and medicare to be welfare.

Why yes, they are, go back and read the Conservative arguments against SS back in the 1930's.

Now, I use the VA for my medical care with the full understanding that all Americans chip in to take care of me.

It is indeed a government, socialist, welfare handout. All of us Vets who use the VA benefit from these socialist. programs.

Anyone who considers Social Security anything more than beer money made some really bad career decisions.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by kettlepot

I usually don't respond to these types of threads, but I find the condescending nature of the comments offered above to be shameful and arrogant.

The northern part of the state used to have a thriving resource extraction economy based on mining, logging, and to a lesser extent agriculture which kept its blue collar labor force gainfully employed. However, over the past 50 years political representatives from the coastal areas have regulated and taxed these industries into oblivion in a 20th Century version of an Environmentalist Enclosure movement. The coastal elites destroyed the North State's economic base and now these same elites make snide remarks because a larger than typical portion of the residual population has been forced onto economic assistance. Then to maintain some kind of economic base, these counties have taken in your social detritus by hosting prisons to house your hoodlums and absorb unemployable parolees from the coast who otherwise couldn't have survived in expensive urban areas. All of these things have contributed to the outsized public assistance numbers you now see reported from these rural northern counties.

Oh, as for the one resource that is still being extracted from the area, water, its fair market value isn't paid to the local counties. It goes to the federal and state governments with no mechanism for the local population to ever reclaim ownership or to renegotiate the terms of trade. There's a word for these kinds of arrangements, it's called economic imperialism, and you people of California's coastal cities, are the Imperialists.

Through brute political force, you have stripped the people of the North State of their livelihoods, driven them off the land, and now mock them for their poverty. So don your pith helmets, swing your fly swatters and keep snickering at the lazy natives.

This is basically, weird propaganda. Look, the lumber mill in our town closed, not because of those coastal elite envros but because the trees were gone, yep, the mill was built to mill big timber. It all got cut down. nothing but doghair pencil thickets today. That scenario exists throughout north California. Problem with a finite resource, it is finite.

Look at what Milliken did with Pacific Redwood to pay off his Junk bond debts, Pacific Redwood had been manage for sustained yield. He bought it and multiplied the cut by huge amounts, and desecrated many of the last privately owned Redwood stands.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Electric Blue

People have planned their lives around social security and to a lesser degree medicare. They didn't create the program,yet have to pay into it. Personally I would like to see more choice in both programs. It is your side who opposes any even modest. Still,it is idiotic to compare programs you pay into,like social security,to people who never worked collecting welfare and food stamps. Not even mentioning veterans programs.

Why not "mentioning veteran's programs"?
And what are your sources and definitions for: "people who never worked collecting welfare and food stamps"? Seriously. I am interested to know on what you base your assumptions.

Do you know the percentage of people who receive the different kinds of welfare?
Do you know who the people are that receive welfare assistance?
Do you even know what the different forms of welfare are?

For example: TANF is the name of the only cash welfare program in the nation/state -- except for the disabled.
Most TANF recipients are children. Do you think they should have worked before collecting?
The number of adults receiving TANF cash assistance in the U.S. is less than 1/2 of 1% of the adult population -- and many, if not most, DID work at some point prior to qualifying for TANF.
Furthermore, 15% of households receiving TANF do have at least one working adult -- they just don't earn enough to rise above federal poverty standards.
And most of those adults not working but receiving TANF are mothers of TANF children.
And, TANF support is restricted to anywhere from 24 - 60 months total.
Most adults on TANF are also enrolled in training programs to help them find work when the TANF runs out and they still have kids to support.

Did you know ANY of that before you stereotyped the welfare recipients?

Learn the categories of welfare before you post.
Learn who is really in those welfare programs.

Yes. There are cheaters. They amount to fractions of fractions of a fraction of a percent.

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

That was a performance worthy of an Academy Award for drama.

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

I'd also award one for best make-up.

Nope, wrong catagory. Best documentary more like it. Right on target, one of the best brief explanations of the situation I have ever seen.

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

Can you cite any references regarding the "people from the coast" stripping away the rights for mining and forestry?

Follow the link given in post #7 and spend an hour or so on the site.

[Electric Blue]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Why yes, they are, go back and read the Conservative arguments against SS back in the 1930's.

Now, I use the VA for my medical care with the full understanding that all Americans chip in to take care of me.

It is indeed a government, socialist, welfare handout. All of us Vets who use the VA benefit from these socialist. programs.

Anyone who considers Social Security anything more than beer money made some really bad career decisions.

Why would we go back and argue something that has been a law since 1935? Seems pretty futile. Besides I find it quite irresponsible to drastically take something away from people who planned their life around social security and medicare being there. Maybe they shouldn't ahve but they did. To compare getting social security to a direct welfare payment,wow you are either an extreme libertarian or disingenous.