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Old 07-09-2012, 11:12 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,411 posts, read 10,389,767 times
Reputation: 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Youse guys obviously aren't sailors ... nor live on or by beaches. I am. I do. It is disgusting and destructive as hell. And America is the number one source by far. Regardless of environmental laws the bags end up tossed around outside of "refuse disposal systems" by the hundreds of billions.

"Bigger fish to fry"? Bigger than your children's future? I see. So while you are frying the Big Fish, it's too much trouble to work with a reusable bag? Americans are entitled to trash the world because it's easier than washing a cloth bag with your laundry? Can't be bothered?

Even if littering didn't cause environmental harm -- which it does -- do you really consider it an optional personal habit? Respect for others is beneath Americans?

Here's some facts for you to reconsider:
about 100 billion polyethylene plastic bags are thrown away each year in America alone
between 500 billion and a trillion plastic bags are consumed worldwide each year.
8.7 plastic checkout bags contain enough embodied petroleum energy to drive a car 1 kilometre
fewer than 1% of bags are recycled
plastic trash kills over 1 million sea creatures of various kinds every year
Plastic bags are often mistaken as food by marine mammals. 100,000 marine mammals die yearly by eating plastic bags. These animals suffer a painful death, the plastic wraps around their intestines or they choke to death.
My god it's not worth arguing with those who've likely never put themselves in any position to see what happens. When you get turtles birds and marine mammals who need to have surgery to remove plastic, there's a problem. It's not survival of the fittest, the fit were never designed to deal with man made plastic. Not to mention the plastic releases chemicals harmful to wildlife and people. You know just like it does in water bottles. If anyone here likes to fish, you care about this in the environment. It's not just careless people either, these things have a way of finding their way into places they shouldn't be.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:13 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,411 posts, read 10,389,767 times
Reputation: 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Lexus View Post
Now, how about a similar ban on street gangs, preferences for foreigners and out-of-staters to get the higher tuition fees, and the preference for foreigners displacing qualified americans through outsourcing?
I'll go for that
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:20 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
I surrender, Nullgeo . . . obviously you're hooked on that Nancy Pelosi Kool-Aid.

I'll close with this . . . YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE.
I need to get out more huh
I was raised around politicians up to the highest offices in the land
and around the highest leadership of the civil rights and labor movements
I am a disabled war vet
multi-lingual
undergrad and graduate degrees in both arts and sciences
lived in nine states and a third world country
raised a large family including as a single parent after my wife died
self employed for over 35 years
nursed the dying ... picked up body parts (literally) and bagged 'em
served the disabled and veteran's communities continuously as a volunteer
built, own, rent and manage multiple rental properties
but live in a van and on a little sailboat up and down the Pacific coast, by choice as a full-time camper

Bummer, I am "OUT" full-time and have been for decades and decades
now tell me what I've missed ... tell me what I don't understand about politics and social and individual responsibility
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:23 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
My god it's not worth arguing with those who've likely never put themselves in any position to see what happens. When you get turtles birds and marine mammals who need to have surgery to remove plastic, there's a problem. It's not survival of the fittest, the fit were never designed to deal with man made plastic. Not to mention the plastic releases chemicals harmful to wildlife and people. You know just like it does in water bottles. If anyone here likes to fish, you care about this in the environment. It's not just careless people either, these things have a way of finding their way into places they shouldn't be.
Trashy, disrespectful, wasteful, shallow human beings ... masters of the universe ... my arse.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Nesconset, NY
1,240 posts, read 1,339,967 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pac12Fan View Post
Bill to ban single use plastic bags, tax paper bags in California

I already live with such a ban in Santa Monica. I always forget my bags when I shop after work, but don't really mind the 10 cent fee. I love the ban and hope it passes. How do you guys feel?
A better link, IMHO:
A short history of plastic bag laws in California | plasticbaglaws.org
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Old 07-10-2012, 08:55 AM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGuy1202 View Post
Thanks for that link, LIGuy ...

and here is yet another plastic bag ban going into effect next month.
This one in Bellingham, WA.
So wondering if "California's dysfunctional politics" also caused this to happen up north?
Or could this just possibly be an issue of significance to a lot of folks around the world who recognize it as a gesture of common decency that is really simple to make? -- nah, it's just "California's dysfunctional politics" infecting the entire world. Baaaaaaaaaad California!

Bag ban comes into effect Aug. 1
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:02 AM
Status: "Happy Chris Day" (set 3 days ago)
 
20,147 posts, read 12,575,301 times
Reputation: 17169
Good grief I can't believe I am siding with the tree huggers on this one.

I hate bans but people arn't good stewards of the environment when it comes to this issue. I say charge 10 cents a bag for plastic and 20 cents for paper and be done with it. BTW paper recycled or not cost 4-6 times more to produce and uses 20 times more fresh water.

BTW neither paper or plastic are bad. It's the behavior of people that are bad.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:15 AM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Good grief I can't believe I am siding with the tree huggers on this one.

I hate bans but people arn't good stewards of the environment when it comes to this issue. I say charge 10 cents a bag for plastic and 20 cents for paper and be done with it. BTW paper recycled or not cost 4-6 times more to produce and uses 20 times more fresh water.

BTW neither paper or plastic are bad. It's the behavior of people that are bad.
Apparently pigs DO, indeed, fly ...
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
12,411 posts, read 10,389,767 times
Reputation: 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Good grief I can't believe I am siding with the tree huggers on this one.

I hate bans but people arn't good stewards of the environment when it comes to this issue. I say charge 10 cents a bag for plastic and 20 cents for paper and be done with it. BTW paper recycled or not cost 4-6 times more to produce and uses 20 times more fresh water.

BTW neither paper or plastic are bad. It's the behavior of people that are bad.
It's because you're an outdoors person. Somehow I'm not too surprised that you somewhat agree. You're also right that people are just irresponsible. Those getting sick from reusable bags are idiots for thinking they'd never have to wash them.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: California / Maryland / Cape May
1,548 posts, read 1,219,334 times
Reputation: 1202
I have devoted the majority of my life (since age 11/12) to assisting the environment from my lifestyle, to teaching others, to beginning programs in schools and communities, to devoting more hours most people work during a typical work week to environmental charities, etc.

What have I learned from all of this? The only way to not have an impact on the environment is to not be alive. Plain and simple. I don't plan on jumping off a bridge to save the world, so I guess I'm just going to have to damage the earth in some way by breathing, eating, walking, having a roof, etc.

As for the specific topic of bags, until the city doesn't require us to place our trash in plastic bags for trash collection, and until I'm not required to pick up dog poo at the county park (which would also be bad for the environment due to the bacteria it would cause in run off), I just don't see how one can rule out plastic bags.

If you're not using the free plastic bags you get from buying groceries to put your trash and dog poo in, you're buying plastic bags to put your trash and dog poo in. What's the difference?

I'll tell you. The store is paying for the bags now. After the ban, the consumer is paying for the bags. Either way, they're ending up in the landfills until the State says we can place our trash right in the trash can not in a plastic bag. That's where legislation should be changed, in my opinion.

(And, yes, I don't take a bag when I can fit the item in my purse, and I do use reusable bags if my pile of free bags is growing larger than I could use for trash/dog poo for that week. And I reuse paper bags until the bottom busts out, or I'll decorate them and use them as fun wrapping paper, etc. NOTHING gets wasted in my house.)
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