Is California the welfare capital? (Fresno, Sacramento: house, find a job, transfer)

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by x3ie

Stockton is officially bankrupt - YouTube

Hot dang. Stockton's arrived. It's now the whole state of California. Who knew?

[5thgenSF]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Hot dang. Stockton's arrived. It's now the whole state of California. Who knew?

maybe he lives in stockton, lol. then it would be the whole world! i think modesto didn't get much notice until scott peterson. then his girlfriend kind of highlighted fresno. is bad news better than no news?!

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by Austinite101

Texas has more people (as a percentage) on welfare than does California. California will be fine soon enough. Just calm your tats.

Really? Show us your source

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Yes. Exactly what I said: it is what you choose to believe, not what you know.
• We do not know the poster worked in welfare -- for numerous years -- or at all ... we just have an undocumented post.
• Regardless (and assuming the poster DID work in welfare), we don't know the poster's job in welfare ...
what was entailed, or required for knowledge of the system.
Example: does a janitor in a hospital know neurosurgery?
• I never said the poster was lying -- I said the conclusions were unsubstantiated ... and I backed that up with sources that show so.

Thanks for skipping around my challenge for you to prove that the poster was full of it

Originally Posted by nullgeo

You asserted that the post was factual ... but the post had no proofs ... nor do you.

Sure I do...look it up yourself! And while you are at it please enlighten us as to why the poster was full of it

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Again, please tell us the basis for your claim that the system is "broken and inefficient" ... you must know a very great deal about the welfare system and how to make it better.

Are you serious? Once again I don't need to prove that the system is broken and needs an overhaoul or that the poster was full of it...I absolutely know the welfare situation in CA is full of scams and poorly managed...you need to prove to us that the poster was full of it

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I could not disagree more. That is the height of judgmentalism.

How so?

Originally Posted by nullgeo

It is an ideological equivalent to arguments used as basis for genocide.

Wow I think you are going off on the wrong tangent. Genocide What are you talking about. When the govt. pays for people to just live and DO NOTHING else that in itself is dystopia.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Austerity and the end of the European model has zero to do with justifying your judgement. There is no justification for what you wrote...

Austerity is what CA needs to follow...that was my point.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

There isn't the slightest "hijacking" going on here. This is entirely on topic. And there hasn't been a single insult from me.

Of course that is the way you see it but just reflect and see the reality of how you behave towards others that do not share your beliefs. Again why did you not attack the poster who claimed to work in welfare? Why? I am so surprised that you had nothing to say to that poster...very interesting

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I have never "sugar-coated" the welfare system. I have only stepped up to correct unsubstantiated hyperbole and stereotyping.

Really? That is not what you do at all. You are 100000000% intollerant of anyone who says one thing bad about the mismanaged welfare system in CA. I think you might be a welfare scammer since you get so bent out of shape and can't listen to one ounce of logic when it comes to CA's welfare system.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

What is your true motivation in trying to stereotype groups of people you don't know anything about?
What is your motivation in trying to judge who is worthy of living?

This is the icing on the cake. I think everyone is worthy of living but not at the expense of others. Meaning if you want to take care of everyone then go for it! But don't expect everyone to feel the same. We all pay taxes to help those who can't help themselves. Some give more than that which is beautiful! But there is no denying that the system is greatly broken in this state and needs an overhaul...that is my message loud and clear...but of course you twist it to your liking. Recall how you like to claim that those at the very top are great sociopathic masters? Guess what? There are many with the same mindsets that just abuse the free handout system. Unfortunately that is the weakness of mankind. You can research this as much as you like. Then realize that we have the takers and the makers. When we give to the takers we just create a system of enabling...and then here come the creation of welfare scammers. This does not include everyone on welfare but more than you can imagine. We should all be able to live the life that we want and that WE CREATE....but not at the expense of others. Get it?

You see this as stereotyping groups of people that I don't know? Whatever gets you through your day...just don't put that $hit on me OK

I never asked for free handouts to get to where I am in life and OMG the sky is falling (according to you) if I expect the same of others.

No one in the USA should have to exist on handouts if they are truly a willing and able body with a purpose.

For someone to just rant and hate on those who do not believe in the abuse of the welfare system says alot about you. Your motive is not what you claim. If you had any understanding of the abuses or you just might be the person doing the abusing of this system...then all your ranting makes sense.

[cmjp24]

FACT: As of 2011, TEXAS has less than 1% of its 26 million on welfare (of any kind) while California is closer to 4% of its 37 million+ and 32% of all welfare recipients in AMERICA live in CALIFORNIA.

FACT: As of 2011, CALIFORNIA's CalWorks cases grew by almost 30% while Texas lowered 15.4%

FACT: California has over 1.5 milion recipients on Cash Aid while Texas has less than 330K. California does not impose Full Family Sanctions....TX does.....

FACT: Food Stamps (SNAP) is run by the Feds, so TX and CA may have similar % b/c the states have very little control over what the Feds do....so the easier the Fed make food stamps more ppl take advantage of it.....California and TX have about 3.9 million each on Food Stamps; however, from May 2011 to May 2012 California had 6.8% increase in Food Stamps enrollees while Texas had 0.3% increase.

FACT: TX just turned down millions in MediCaid $ to control welfare spending and is known for some of the stictest rules in Medicaid .... California has the highest MediCaid (Medi Cal) spending in the country and has now moved 900K more children from its state run (broke) Healthy Families program to MediCal. There are hundreds of articles online that will tell you the gut renching stories of how MediCal has completly shut down ERs/Hospitals b/c California does not pay back doctors 1/2 of what the actual cost of treatment is....this has forced shut downs or even down right refusal to take Medi Cal by doc or hospitals. One such case is in Fresno which has the only Children's Hospital b/w LA and SF....A few years back they had to stop taking MediCal b/c the loss was too great.....

I would not lie in my previous post. I worked as an Administrator for a smaller county in Central California. I am not trying to be bellicous or rude. There are ppl out there who need help and not all of them are driving Caddies, but in 6 years I saw a lot of abuse and at the local level we were helpless against Sacramento and CDSS. And if you look up the statistics in both Child Welfare and Social Services (CalWorks and SNAP) you will see the avg family is over 3 kids.

I talked with many clients and their eligibility workers over the years. Some had hard luck, most did not. I am not writing to offend anyone, but I saw alot of abuse and fraud in welfare spending and I no longer wanted to be anywhere near it. I moved to Calfornia in early 90's and saw it completely deteriorate in 20 years....I am afraid for the next 20 years.....look at the stats....numbers don't lie. Crime/Gangs, Illegal Immigrants, Poverty/Welfare, Unemployment have all increased....bad trends.

I wish you all luck in your journey and I am not here to tell you where to move. You must do what is right for you. If you have money and can live in nicer areas in So Cal or No Cal do it. But if you are middle class like me, Cali is not the best place to be right now. This is my own experience not anyone else's and is not meant to influence.

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by cmjp24

FACT: As of 2011, TEXAS has less than 1% of its 26 million on welfare (of any kind) while California is closer to 4% of its 37 million+ and 32% of all welfare recipients in AMERICA live in CALIFORNIA.

FACT: As of 2011, CALIFORNIA's CalWorks cases grew by almost 30% while Texas lowered 15.4%

FACT: California has over 1.5 milion recipients on Cash Aid while Texas has less than 330K. California does not impose Full Family Sanctions....TX does.....

FACT: Food Stamps (SNAP) is run by the Feds, so TX and CA may have similar % b/c the states have very little control over what the Feds do....so the easier the Fed make food stamps more ppl take advantage of it.....California and TX have about 3.9 million each on Food Stamps; however, from May 2011 to May 2012 California had 6.8% increase in Food Stamps enrollees while Texas had 0.3% increase.

FACT: TX just turned down millions in MediCaid $ to control welfare spending and is known for some of the stictest rules in Medicaid .... California has the highest MediCaid (Medi Cal) spending in the country and has now moved 900K more children from its state run (broke) Healthy Families program to MediCal. There are hundreds of articles online that will tell you the gut renching stories of how MediCal has completly shut down ERs/Hospitals b/c California does not pay back doctors 1/2 of what the actual cost of treatment is....this has forced shut downs or even down right refusal to take Medi Cal by doc or hospitals. One such case is in Fresno which has the only Children's Hospital b/w LA and SF....A few years back they had to stop taking MediCal b/c the loss was too great.....

I would not lie in my previous post. I worked as an Administrator for a smaller county in Central California. I am not trying to be bellicous or rude. There are ppl out there who need help and not all of them are driving Caddies, but in 6 years I saw a lot of abuse and at the local level we were helpless against Sacramento and CDSS. And if you look up the statistics in both Child Welfare and Social Services (CalWorks and SNAP) you will see the avg family is over 3 kids.

I talked with many clients and their eligibility workers over the years. Some had hard luck, most did not. I am not writing to offend anyone, but I saw alot of abuse and fraud in welfare spending and I no longer wanted to be anywhere near it. I moved to Calfornia in early 90's and saw it completely deteriorate in 20 years....I am afraid for the next 20 years.....look at the stats....numbers don't lie. Crime/Gangs, Illegal Immigrants, Poverty/Welfare, Unemployment have all increased....bad trends.

I wish you all luck in your journey and I am not here to tell you where to move. You must do what is right for you. If you have money and can live in nicer areas in So Cal or No Cal do it. But if you are middle class like me, Cali is not the best place to be right now. This is my own experience not anyone else's and is not meant to influence.

Thank you for this post! I knew you were being honest as anyone can look at the numbers and see that something is fishy. Some posters want to bash anyone who brings to light that the CA welfare system is a sham and needs to be overhauled. Welfare for those in need is not what I am concerned about...it is welfare for the able bodied and those who know how to milk the system which are my concern. I would bet those numbers are higher than those who really need the help.

Here are some more numbers: Welfare Caseloads total recipients (per capita) statistics - states compared - State Master

[expatCA]

What many can't admit is that the "form" of socialism in CA is a failure, not the principles.

It is this way, or this way, for so many, and that lets out genuine discussion on how to fix it using true Socialist/Liberal principles.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by cmjp24

FACT: As of 2011, TEXAS has less than 1% of its 26 million on welfare (of any kind) while California is closer to 4% of its 37 million+ and 32% of all welfare recipients in AMERICA live in CALIFORNIA.

FACT: As of 2011, CALIFORNIA's CalWorks cases grew by almost 30% while Texas lowered 15.4%

FACT: California has over 1.5 milion recipients on Cash Aid while Texas has less than 330K. California does not impose Full Family Sanctions....TX does.....

FACT: Food Stamps (SNAP) is run by the Feds, so TX and CA may have similar % b/c the states have very little control over what the Feds do....so the easier the Fed make food stamps more ppl take advantage of it.....California and TX have about 3.9 million each on Food Stamps; however, from May 2011 to May 2012 California had 6.8% increase in Food Stamps enrollees while Texas had 0.3% increase.

FACT: TX just turned down millions in MediCaid $ to control welfare spending and is known for some of the stictest rules in Medicaid .... California has the highest MediCaid (Medi Cal) spending in the country and has now moved 900K more children from its state run (broke) Healthy Families program to MediCal. There are hundreds of articles online that will tell you the gut renching stories of how MediCal has completly shut down ERs/Hospitals b/c California does not pay back doctors 1/2 of what the actual cost of treatment is....this has forced shut downs or even down right refusal to take Medi Cal by doc or hospitals. One such case is in Fresno which has the only Children's Hospital b/w LA and SF....A few years back they had to stop taking MediCal b/c the loss was too great.....

I would not lie in my previous post. I worked as an Administrator for a smaller county in Central California. I am not trying to be bellicous or rude. There are ppl out there who need help and not all of them are driving Caddies, but in 6 years I saw a lot of abuse and at the local level we were helpless against Sacramento and CDSS. And if you look up the statistics in both Child Welfare and Social Services (CalWorks and SNAP) you will see the avg family is over 3 kids.

I talked with many clients and their eligibility workers over the years. Some had hard luck, most did not. I am not writing to offend anyone, but I saw alot of abuse and fraud in welfare spending and I no longer wanted to be anywhere near it. I moved to Calfornia in early 90's and saw it completely deteriorate in 20 years....I am afraid for the next 20 years.....look at the stats....numbers don't lie. Crime/Gangs, Illegal Immigrants, Poverty/Welfare, Unemployment have all increased....bad trends.

I wish you all luck in your journey and I am not here to tell you where to move. You must do what is right for you. If you have money and can live in nicer areas in So Cal or No Cal do it. But if you are middle class like me, Cali is not the best place to be right now. This is my own experience not anyone else's and is not meant to influence.

Thank you for at least partially correcting your previous post's hyperbole. I see we are now down from "welfare families with 10 children" - to families with something "over 3 kids". I also note we are not reading about families receiving "$10K a month" in benefits.

And I didn't read about any "mofo's" in your update. Nice. Thanks.

Statistics are helpful in establishing references for discussions too. But the ones you provide only generalize that California spends more than Texas.
1. We already knew that California spends more (than Texas).
2. We know that California has the nation's highest population of welfare recipients.
3. This conversation wasn't about California vs Texas, but it is okay to use Texas as an example.
4. None of the above define supportable reasons why California has a high welfare population.
5. None of the above defines goals or standards of success or failure for welfare funding -- therefore there is no conclusion to be drawn from them.

It may be true that Texas and other states do a "better job" of managing welfare -- or not ... depends on what is agreed upon to achieve. Simply spending less money on welfare, or having fewer people on welfare, doesn't determine whether goals are being met. Unless "spending less" is the goal. In welfare, the goals are generally to actually serve a needy population. Of course the trick is to find and manage available funding most efficiently -- while guiding dependency to independence. Tough stuff. Simple knee-jerking reactions are counterproductive.

In any case, anecdotal observations of systemic "abuses" are nearly worthless. Where are your studies and statistics of success and failure? The links I provided discuss statistically studied demographics, successes, and failures. It's not a pretty picture, welfare. But it is also NOT what was being thrown around anecdotally. And that was / is my objection.

I didn't say you were lying. Didn't assume so. I also don't deny abuse and fraud.
What I object to is the hyperbolic, anecdotal stereotyping without foundation. It is counterproductive and demeaning to paint with a broad brush. Fraud and theft and abuse exist in every aspect of society - and always have. If that reality was dominant it would be cost imperative to correct. In the full scope of the program, however, at this time, it is not. So, while the visible instances are infuriating, they do not tell the story of welfare.

[cmjp24]

Here are some more scary stories about welfare that are more common than you think.

FACT: For Eligibility welfare offices cannot include your car value, your house value, your savings and/or retirement accounts as part of your eligibility for welfare. We had people who lived in $300K houses, drove new Cars and had $1000's of dollars in their savings that were eligible for food stamps, medical and/or cash if they had dependent children. Most of our clients owned more than one car and a house. If they were so "poor" how do they have $4 a gallon for their cars and $1100 or more for their mortgage......

FACT: Most welfare depts are so bogged down with caseloads that they do not have the time to audit cases that are redflagged for income. See there is a system that flags ppl's ssn's through payrolls and the irs and send those lists out to welfare agencies......I cannot tell you how many times we had ppl with a job or two earning income and not self reporting....that means they were not only collecting welfare, but a paycheck as well....FRAUD.....

FACT: Most welfare agencies are July to June Fiscal Years in CA therefore if they do not spend or overspend their CalWorks dollars they get redistributed, so guess what they do with that extra money. Well in the case of where I worked, they send $200 checks per child per household to each client for them to purchase "school supplies" without requiring a receipt or any proof that they spent that money on "school supplies".....Interesting....considering most of these people are supposed to use their welfare dollars on things like shoes and clothes for their children so why do they need more money to do it....THEY DONT.....

FACT: When I worked in child welfare, the welfare office would use child welfare dollars to pay for braces for kids when middle class families cant even afford to buy these for their own kids. Guess what else they buy them? Cars, Bicycles, Furniture, Cell Phones....Gee I thought paying foster parents to take care of these kids assists with this...NOPE......Oh yea and I forgot how about the 8 illegal children my office decided to buy plane tickets, suitcases, clothes and passports for so they could visit their family in Mexico. ..... HUUUUMMMMMM......

I ve got about 1000 more examples I can give you from just one small county office.....imagine LA or SF or even FRESNO....and multiply that....

I am all for helping out the poor and abused children but there is a limit on giving people things they need to get by versus what we do and give them more incentive to sit at home and drink beer all day b/c that is exactly what they do....

And what about the "sanctions"....in california all that means is that you still get paid for each of your children until they turn 18. And yes between Medi Cal, Cash Aid, Food Stamps, Disability, Section 8, IHSS some of these families do bank well over $10 K a month in benefits....and I am not even including other benefits such as college tuition, books, gas money/transportation, "school supplies", child care and much much more that gets paid for as a supplement to the benefits mentioned above.....oh yea and we buy them refrigerators, beds, cleaning supplies,,,,,,,,more more more more......

So the next time you think I am off base with my so called "hyperbole" think about your federal tax dollars and what they are being used for. Do your kids have braces or get to fly to Mexico to visit their family or how about the $150 passports...what about $200 for "school supplies".....these are TRUE stories and alot more than that.

Whoever these liberal bloggers are that toll the internet looking for posts like mine...get a life and get a job b/c you live in fantasy land.

And if you need more stories or statistics....I will contact plenty of my buddies that work in welfare to come and post here too...WE CAN DO THIS ALL DAY.....

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by cmjp24

Here are some more scary stories about welfare that are more common than you think.

FACT: For Eligibility welfare offices cannot include your car value, your house value, your savings and/or retirement accounts as part of your eligibility for welfare. We had people who lived in $300K houses, drove new Cars and had $1000's of dollars in their savings that were eligible for food stamps, medical and/or cash if they had dependent children. Most of our clients owned more than one car and a house. If they were so "poor" how do they have $4 a gallon for their cars and $1100 or more for their mortgage......

FACT: Most welfare depts are so bogged down with caseloads that they do not have the time to audit cases that are redflagged for income. See there is a system that flags ppl's ssn's through payrolls and the irs and send those lists out to welfare agencies......I cannot tell you how many times we had ppl with a job or two earning income and not self reporting....that means they were not only collecting welfare, but a paycheck as well....FRAUD.....

FACT: Most welfare agencies are July to June Fiscal Years in CA therefore if they do not spend or overspend their CalWorks dollars they get redistributed, so guess what they do with that extra money. Well in the case of where I worked, they send $200 checks per child per household to each client for them to purchase "school supplies" without requiring a receipt or any proof that they spent that money on "school supplies".....Interesting....considering most of these people are supposed to use their welfare dollars on things like shoes and clothes for their children so why do they need more money to do it....THEY DONT.....

FACT: When I worked in child welfare, the welfare office would use child welfare dollars to pay for braces for kids when middle class families cant even afford to buy these for their own kids. Guess what else they buy them? Cars, Bicycles, Furniture, Cell Phones....Gee I thought paying foster parents to take care of these kids assists with this...NOPE......Oh yea and I forgot how about the 8 illegal children my office decided to buy plane tickets, suitcases, clothes and passports for so they could visit their family in Mexico. ..... HUUUUMMMMMM......

I ve got about 1000 more examples I can give you from just one small county office.....imagine LA or SF or even FRESNO....and multiply that....

I am all for helping out the poor and abused children but there is a limit on giving people things they need to get by versus what we do and give them more incentive to sit at home and drink beer all day b/c that is exactly what they do....

And what about the "sanctions"....in california all that means is that you still get paid for each of your children until they turn 18. And yes between Medi Cal, Cash Aid, Food Stamps, Disability, Section 8, IHSS some of these families do bank well over $10 K a month in benefits....and I am not even including other benefits such as college tuition, books, gas money/transportation, "school supplies", child care and much much more that gets paid for as a supplement to the benefits mentioned above.....oh yea and we buy them refrigerators, beds, cleaning supplies,,,,,,,,more more more more......

So the next time you think I am off base with my so called "hyperbole" think about your federal tax dollars and what they are being used for. Do your kids have braces or get to fly to Mexico to visit their family or how about the $150 passports...what about $200 for "school supplies".....these are TRUE stories and alot more than that.

Whoever these liberal bloggers are that toll the internet looking for posts like mine...get a life and get a job b/c you live in fantasy land.

And if you need more stories or statistics....I will contact plenty of my buddies that work in welfare to come and post here too...WE CAN DO THIS ALL DAY.....

I think this would be a pretty good idea ... you and your buddies that work in welfare should collect stories (with verifications) and take them to the welfare management and hierarchies and the media ... I am pretty sure we'd get interest from all sides. A number of journalists would enjoy getting their teeth into sorting out the anecdotal from the larger statistics and other stories to provide an investigative report. If you and / or your buddies don't want to be identified, that's okay too ... just amass your verified stories of abuse and contact me DM ... I will get together with welfare and journalist(s) and create an anonymous pass-through of your verified examples.

Let's see how the numbers add up.

Good post -- if you'll back it up with statistically significant verified examples. Just remember that of a caseload running between 500,000 - 600,000 it will take between 5,000 and 6,000 cases of verified fraud to hit even 1% ... which (1%) is not statistically significant relative to the full community served. Now if you can come up with multiple 10's of thousands of examples where the abuses you cite occur, we have a significant case to bring to the management, politicians, and public. Somehow I doubt you could find 20,000 tickets to Mexico, $10K monthly benefit payments, etc. But if you did, I'll join in presenting the reality to the press.