Is California the welfare capital? (real estate, insurance, purchases)

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by cmjp24

Hello all....

I did not post here to nullify null or for any other reason to let you know my side of the story. I agree with Null that it would be great to take all these cases and post them all over the internet and news; however, I am bound by both Federal and State confidentiality laws...no one will ever know who committed the fraud and how much it is b/c they are protected under a multitude of laws....i probably already said too much as it is. Unless the Feds start raiding and doing "true" audits of welfare, no one else will stop the fraud waste and abuse. This is a systemic problem. I don't even blame the clients b/c the system allows them to be the way they are with no punishment.

As for telling management, don't you think my "buddies" and I have tried over the years.....some even anonomously reported the agency to the Ombudsman, OIG and other regulating agencies.....NO ONE IN POWER CARED....the 8 kids that got a very expensive trip to Mexico....I fought that all the way up to the Director....you know what she did to me instead.....she transferred me to another dept. DON'T YOU GET IT.....THEY DON'T WANT HONEST PEOPLE LIKE ME.....THIS IS WHY I LEFT....Do you know how many times I pointed out their "grey" ways of spending....I had a boss tell me that I was "TOO BLACK AND WHITE AND NEED TO SEE MORE GREY"......I fought them tooth and nail on spending, budgeting, how they worded contracts and even the fuzzy statistics they used to put out....None of that mattered and in the end my boss told me that "MAYBE WELFARE ISN'T THE PLACE FOR YOU...YOU SHOULD FIND ANOTHER JOB....." and so I did.....

I was not willing to compromise my integrity and my belief system to get a fat pension. I gave up a sweet deal---CalPERS is the biggest state run pension in America and I gave up a huge salary with killer benefits b/c my mental/physical health is more important to me. Most of my former colleagues don't have that privilege b/c they are not educated beyond HSD and will never find a job that pays them $40-50K a year with a life time of benefits so they are stuck.....but don't think for one minute they enjoy their job or the ppl surrounding it b/c they don't. I appreciate Null's sense of quality over quantity....I am a stats person by trade, but until real reform happens that completely overhauls the system it will never change and stories like mine will just be water under the bridge.

All I can say is to get involved in your community and vote....maybe we can make a difference. Ciao.....Adios....

Thanks for a good post here. I understand your perspective. And this adds to the larger picture I was trying to show. It seems likely to me that your boss was correct: Welfare isn't the place for you ... having nothing to do with competence, you simply fall into the category of people for whom a sense of justice is too overpowering on an individual case basis to be comfortable riding out the collateral realities.

Military action very often results in 'collateral damage' ... I served in a branch of operations in which collateral damage was common and huge ... it is unacceptable and yet unavoidable ... some of the guys I served with laughed it off ... others broke down ... I endured but found it painful. The fact is that the welfare system is winning a war, even though it doesn't appear to be so at all times to all observers. The costs to society of not having a welfare safety net would be vastly, incalculably greater than living with the collateral reality that wherever assets can't be fully and constantly guarded, there WILL be unavoidable losses. Human nature includes theft and fraud for a certain percentage of people who don't perceive better options for survival. There will also be loss -- the majority in the case of welfare -- to error and mismanagement. Regardless, the system is critical and successful, in spite of anecdotal experiences that read like horror stories.

As I wrote previously, you want to be enraged by fraud and loss? Look to tax evasion. Yes, as practiced by your friends, neighbors, family -- perhaps even YOU reading this The losses and costs of tax-evasion to government and the public make welfare losses less than a drop in the bucket. But, of course, it's not so easy to vilify a class of readily identifiable undesirables, as with welfare. Nope, you'd have to be critical of huge cross-sections of every class of "citizen" from rich to poor, all colors and religions and national origins, and every education level. Why, you'd even have to be suspicious of people running for the highest office of the land.

[ZhugeLiang]

People who complain about other posters lack of statistical data who then respond with a link to a blog always make me howl with laughter.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

People who complain about other posters lack of statistical data who then respond with a link to a blog always make me howl with laughter.

Example?

[malamute]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

As I wrote previously, you want to be enraged by fraud and loss? Look to tax evasion. Yes, as practiced by your friends, neighbors, family -- perhaps even YOU reading this The losses and costs of tax-evasion to government and the public make welfare losses less than a drop in the bucket. But, of course, it's not so easy to vilify a class of readily identifiable undesirables, as with welfare. Nope, you'd have to be critical of huge cross-sections of every class of "citizen" from rich to poor, all colors and religions and national origins, and every education level. Why, you'd even have to be suspicious of people running for the highest office of the land.

Tax evasion is a lot less of a moral problem than is trying to get what you didn't work for. With tax evasion, it's just trying to keep more of the money you worked for, welfare fraud is trying not to work for anything but getting it given them.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by malamute

Tax evasion is a lot less of a moral problem than is trying to get what you didn't work for. With tax evasion, it's just trying to keep more of the money you worked for, welfare fraud is trying not to work for anything but getting it given them.

Tax evasion is theft. Period. You have identified yourself with this rationalization for cheating on your taxes. Cafeteria morality: pick and choose what you are willing to be honest about -- cheat on the rest.

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

Fantastic post. Just remember that most liberals will refuse to see the truth behind this kind of abuse and will continue to keep their heads in the sand just to keep the money flowing. We could fix this, yes we could. I think you should run for office....I really do.

Just reading through this thread... Amazing how anyone can defend the welfare system, the abuse and fraud through out the whole US whether it's CA or TX. There must be other agendas.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Just reading through this thread... Amazing how anyone can defend the welfare system, the abuse and fraud through out the whole US whether it's CA or TX. There must be other agendas.

Just reading through the thread and that is your conclusion? Did you actually read the whole thread? No grasp of the cost to society if there were no welfare system? Seriously? You read about the fractional level of fraud and abuse (professional estimates run between 2% - 3%) and that is your concern?

in the U.S., tax evasion amounts to $337.3 billion a year... This was based on numbers from 1999 to 2006 ... Congress was recently unable to agree on a plan to reduce the national deficit by $1 trillion over 10 years. Over the same time period, tax evasion will cost us well over $3.3 trillion.

[cmjp24]

WTF???? What the hell does "tax evasion" have to do with whether or not California is the Welfare Cap???? OMG....Null you are exactly who I thought....a liberal that tolls the internet for these posts.....This is America and I believe in the 1st Amendment, so you are entitled to your opinion....Thank God for all those "non conflicted" soldiers who fought for our rights....The fact that you even brought up 'tax evasion' just proves you love.....taxes....hey like I always say if you want to pay more taxes...you are more then welcome to send the IRS an extra check....I pay my taxes b/c I am a law abiding citizen....do i like it? .... no ... but thanks to Progressives like Wilson we are stuck paying them and all the little ppl sucking off the Govt tit.....This post is getting crazy and I have to spend my time elsewhere....thanks to all the support, but this is getting no where....

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by cmjp24

WTF???? What the hell does "tax evasion" have to do with whether or not California is the Welfare Cap???? OMG....Null you are exactly who I thought....a liberal that tolls the internet for these posts.....This is America and I believe in the 1st Amendment, so you are entitled to your opinion....Thank God for all those "non conflicted" soldiers who fought for our rights....The fact that you even brought up 'tax evasion' just proves you love.....taxes....hey like I always say if you want to pay more taxes...you are more then welcome to send the IRS an extra check....I pay my taxes b/c I am a law abiding citizen....do i like it? .... no ... but thanks to Progressives like Wilson we are stuck paying them and all the little ppl sucking off the Govt tit.....This post is getting crazy and I have to spend my time elsewhere....thanks to all the support, but this is getting no where....

Tax evasion is a far more costly fraud to America and YOU, the taxpayer, than all the welfare fraud ... exponentially. That's the point. YOU benefit immensely by citizenship in the great United States of America. Regardless of imperfections, it costs a very great deal to manage the security and safety and beneficial infrastructures that YOU rely on. That costs money. Money comes from taxation. Pay up. And pay up fully and honestly before you whine about welfare fraud. Tax evasion costs this nation over $335 BILLION a year. A YEAR. EVERY YEAR.

By the way, I AM one of those "non-conflicted" military veterans you mention. Combat disabled, with 100% medical retirement rating from multiple damages on multiple occasion. Regardless, I refused my pension for 28 years while I worked self-employed, including part of those years running my own businesses with employees. I paid my taxes. I paid my fees. I paid for my employees. I paid with my physical health in action overseas.

Tell me about who I am. Tell me about sucking off the government teat.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Tax evasion is theft. Period. You have identified yourself with this rationalization for cheating on your taxes. Cafeteria morality: pick and choose what you are willing to be honest about -- cheat on the rest.

I didn't say I evade taxes, but tax evasion is kind of like trying to keep the pickpocketer's hand out of your pocket or like staying out of dark alley away from the mugger who will grab your wallet from you. The tax evader is just trying to keep more of what he earned.

Also remember -- the welfare recipients are not paying taxes. The tax on $0 income is $0.