California leads the world in plastic bag bans (Long Beach: home, buy)
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I have 2 huge dogs. And 2 houses and a condo full of small trash cans. Prior to these bans, we used "single use" plastic bags to pick up our dog's 'business' and line our small trash cans. Now, we buy other plastic products purpose made for these tasks. Not only do they cost me extra money (non really an issue), but they create the same waste, and TRULY are single use. We've taken a 'product' that some marking company called "single use", which in all reality was VERY far from "single use", and replaced it with a bunch of purpose made products which actually ARE single use.
Now, I'll wait for the arguments to come that I don't need to line my trash cans with plastic bags, and I don't need to use plastic to pick up my dog's ****, to which I will use the argument I made in the last thread - by all means, anyone who wishes to come empty my trash or pick up after my dog, you are more than willing. Until then, I will handle my personal business as I see fit. Thanks.
Hmmm...I seem to manage finding trash bags for my dog's cra* ...I use produce bags (nobody's banned those).
I buy trash bags for my bin.
NOT having to get a doubled up plastic bag with my single can of tomatoes EVERY time I step into Safeway is not really a problem for me.
It's not really an all or nothing thing---it's about using LESS, not completely obliterating them. You may have to pay a small charge but it's not the trauma that you're making it out to be.
Oddly enough, I still manage to acquire tons of these bags over time (even though I generally bring my own into the stores) and end up donating them as dog poo bags on my local trail.
You buying trash bags for your bin, and throwing them out with your trash is just as wasteful as you throwing away a "single use plastic bag" from "Safeway". The difference, had you have brought the bag home from your market, is that you would have reused the bag (something that many supporters of these bans adore), rather than buying a trash bag, and using it once before throwing it out.
I, too, find ways to acquire bags, as I shop in areas that have not imposed such bans. If you would like me elaborate on the actual problem (in my area, at least) with these bags, I would be happy to.
My issues with these bans, again, is that there are other options, that were not investigated, before imposing them.
You buying trash bags for your bin, and throwing them out with your trash is just as wasteful as you throwing away a "single use plastic bag" from "Safeway". The difference, had you have brought the bag home from your market, is that you would have reused the bag (something that many supporters of these bans adore), rather than buying a trash bag, and using it once before throwing it out.
I, too, find ways to acquire bags, as I shop in areas that have not imposed such bans. If you would like me elaborate on the actual problem (in my area, at least) with these bags, I would be happy to.
My issues with these bans, again, is that there are other options, that were not investigated, before imposing them.
I do see your point...I just don't think the problem is as dire or as big of a nuisance as you're making it. Bags are not literally banned--you just pay a fee to get one. Okay, perhaps this is problematic for people on low incomes. I get that.
Now I don't know how old you are, but when I was a kid (in the 70's/most of the 80's) stores didn't even have plastic bags at all---if you can remember, it was ONLY paper. Then they started with the choice "paper or plastic"...and then it became mostly plastic--then, stores pretty much stopped asking and it was only plastic.
One must wonder how we ever managed back in the day. We sure did though. Funny that we do need to "ban" something that probably never should have "taken off" to begin with.
I have 2 huge dogs. And 2 houses and a condo full of small trash cans. Prior to these bans, we used "single use" plastic bags to pick up our dog's 'business' and line our small trash cans. Now, we buy other plastic products purpose made for these tasks. Not only do they cost me extra money (non really an issue), but they create the same waste, and TRULY are single use. We've taken a 'product' that some marking company called "single use", which in all reality was VERY far from "single use", and replaced it with a bunch of purpose made products which actually ARE single use.
Now, I'll wait for the arguments to come that I don't need to line my trash cans with plastic bags, and I don't need to use plastic to pick up my dog's ****, to which I will use the argument I made in the last thread - by all means, anyone who wishes to come empty my trash or pick up after my dog, you are more than willing. Until then, I will handle my personal business as I see fit. Thanks.
Holy cow. You are my new favorite person. I have been saying this exact same thing for decades (and felt I was the only one on this train), as recently as a couple weeks ago on another CA board re: the plastic bag ban.
Until I don't have to pick up dog poo from the park (keep in mind, not picking up poo not only is gross but affects the bacteria levels in our watersheds), put my trash in bags for it to be collected (keep in mind not putting trash in a bag causes litter when it blows out of a can), etc., banning bags only means we're now paying for bags that were once free (also, not a financial problem for me, but banning bags does not mean bags won't be affecting our environment).
I have been fighting hard for our environment for nearly 25 years. As eco-concious as I am, I still say that those benefiting from plastic bag bans are the ones that benefit financially. Let's just call a spade a spade. The bag ban is a shiny eco-ribbon put on something that is truly intended to make money.
Last edited by SunnyTXsmile; 08-09-2012 at 12:30 PM..
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,655,150 times
Reputation: 2622
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Actually, that's 100% incorrect.
Plastic bags are 100% recyclable, we (as a society) just don't recycle them, and even when we try, others come along and thwart our efforts.
Huh
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it costs $4,000 to process and recycle 1 ton of plastic bags, which can then be sold on the commodities market for $32 (Jared Blumenfeld, director of San Francisco’s Department of the Environment as reported by Christian Science Monitor),
What is interesting is that stores used to provide paper bags and later went to plastic; both at no cost to the patron. Now we get paper and have to pay for it?????
Exactllllyyy. Now you're seeing the light, or rather, $$$ signs (because, if they would just be honest, that is really what this ban is all about). These diplomats and corporations couldn't give two sneezes about the environment. I certainly haven't seen any of them out there with us helping to clean up this great planet, or even better, changing any of their other policies to stop their wastefulness in the first place. But they're certainly all over a fee for a bag that now lowers their overhead and creates a profit. If the environment was truly their concern, they'd be doing much more than charging a few cents for a bag.
Wasn't aware there was a financial kicker to you argument. You said they were around forever. My argument it that is not correct, as even indicated by the quote you provided. They are recyclable. Maybe we should invest in better recycling technology?
There is a solution for every problem, and I have long admitted that there is a plastic bag littering problem in CA. Littering being the key word here. No one wants to admit that fighting littering is the issue, or has been able to come up with a reason that we can't target littering itself.
Lastly, do you know what 1 ton of plastic bags looks like? I do. (its a lot)
Last edited by 1200RT; 08-09-2012 at 12:36 PM..
Reason: fixed spelling.
Wasn't aware there was a financial kicker to you argument. You said they were around forever. My agreement it that is not correct, as even indicated by the quote you provided. They are recyclable. Maybe we should invest in better recycling technology?
There is a solution for every problem, and I have long admitted that there is a plastic bag littering problem in CA. Littering being the key word here. No one wants to admit that fighting littering is the issue, or has been able to come up with a reason that we can't target littering itself.
Lastly, do you know what 1 ton of plastic bags looks like? I do. (its a lot)
You pointed up to my post, but I'm assuming you're responding to someone else.
Either way, I agree 100% with what I bolded above.
P.S. I'd be repping your posts eight ways from the sun if C-D didn't limit my reps.
here are some posts in made in the last thread we had about this topic. no one wanted to address them. anyone care to this time around?
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Originally Posted by 1200RT
Nope. Simply shopping elsewhere.
As I mentioned earlier - this is less about plastic bags, and more about going down the road to banning everything that could possibly find its way into a landfill. Your comment about throwaway culture 'sucking' is exactly the point - I'm confident you would support banning to-go containers and plastic water bottles. Eventually there will be a stalemate- you can't have convenience and no 'throwaway' items.
You will tell me that my convenience is trumped by 'protecting the environment', and this is an opinion. I respect your opinion, but I ask that legislation that impacts my convenience not be made on the opinions of others. I respect all recycling laws, and actually enjoy the thought of things being reused or re manufactured.All of the items mentioned in this thread have the ability to be recycled. If City's recycling policies need to be revamped? Great - make it so.
If you tell me that I need to 'verify' my bags are not being littered? Fine. If you tell me that the city will allow me to lock down my trash bin in my alley so homeless can't litter? Fine. I'm not for more regulation, but both would allow those who follow the laws to maintain some kind of sanity.
Remember - these laws are not keeping me from throwing plastic bags away. I have just replaced grocery bags with other forms of plastic bags. Throwaway culture? Yes. If you're offering to come pick up after my dogs without throwing anything away? You're hired. If you're offering to come take out my trash in unlined trash bins? When can you start? Until then, I will continue with the sanitary practice of using plastic, and throwing that plastic away.
Eventually being sanitary (public health) will trump the war on throwaway culture.
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Originally Posted by 1200RT
You certainly can.
I'm going to offer up an opinion, which comes from first hand knowledge of witnessing plastic bag littering, time and time again. Homeowners in Santa Monica are not the ones littering. Homeless, transient and Hispanics do. My home in Santa Monica has an alley behind it, with our recycling and trash bins in the alley. My 2nd story home office overlooks the alley, and our trash bins, and I typically count no less than 5 people going thru the bins on a daily basis. Yes - daily.
Before anyone jumps allover me for "stereotyping", please consider that this is first hand knowledge, and I witness it DAILY. I have been officially trained in race/ethnicity recognition and know that a majority of the people I see are Hispanic or Latino. Its not a negative or a stereotype, its simply fact based on my observations.
The problem is the City's unwillingness to control its trash receptacles. My hunch is the City actually likes helping such transients collect cans and bottles, but again - just a hunch. I witness daily rifling through every trash can on my alley, tearing open garbage bags, stealing the contents, and be damned with whatever doesn't make it back into the bin. Including plastic bags. When I pull my car out of my garage (on the alley), I typically pick up a handful of empty plastic bags and put them back in the bin. Low and behold, when I get home at night, another handful of bags flying about the alley. Are my neighbors doing this while I'm not home? Maybe. But I live in a terrific neighborhood and know many of my neighbors. We all take pride in the cleanliness of our street and alley, so I very much doubt it.
I have tried to work with the city to lock our alley's bins, but they will not allow it, as their trash collectors will typically will not get out of their truck to unlock. Fine, I understand their position.
I would go as far as to guarantee that targeting litterers of these bags would not be very difficult. The problem is that entails targeting a certain type of people, which are all but exempt from our laws already, and heaven forbid they are policed under the same laws we all try to live by.
Again, the above is an opinion based on first hand knowledge. I'm aware it will probably spark a harsh debate.
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Originally Posted by 1200RT
Lets take a step back, folks, may we?
This isn't finding alternative bags for picking up dog ****. Its about banning bags because cities refuse to enforce the actual crime being committed here - littering.
You seem to want to make the argument that those of us in this thread arguing against these bans are somehow arguing that these bags should somehow be injected directly into our oceans, and that could not be further from the truth. We simply don't want to be punished because some cannot recycle, or otherwise use trash bins correctly (see my previous posts about homeless/Mexicans, in this thread.
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Originally Posted by 1200RT
We've used them. Not bad products. They even make them in the form of gloves, and in a variety of colors.
Begs the question, that if you can make biodegradable poop bags, why can't you make biodegradable grocery bags?
At any rate, I saw a reusable grocery bag abandoned in the street today, half hanging out of a sea draining sewer drain here in Santa Monica. I'm going to start a petition to ban those as well. Anyone with me?
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