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Old 08-22-2012, 08:48 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,815,694 times
Reputation: 3806

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So, this drumbeat we read in the forum constantly about the title issues ruining the state:
high taxes, high welfare numbers, illegals, business red tape ...
Let's see what you all think would happen if the "problems" magically disappeared --
leading to sensational employment and ...........

lots of new growth.

The perfect state, no?
weather, recreation, beauty, culture, infrastructure ...

Anybody think a few more folks might like to come to California?
What would happen if, oh say, about another 38 million showed up to enjoy the promised land?
50 million? More? I hear a LOT of folks don't like the weather in the mid-west and south and east coast.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:07 AM
 
1,213 posts, read 1,320,474 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
So, this drumbeat we read in the forum constantly about the title issues ruining the state:
high taxes, high welfare numbers, illegals, business red tape ...
Let's see what you all think would happen if the "problems" magically disappeared --
leading to sensational employment and ...........

lots of new growth.

The perfect state, no?
weather, recreation, beauty, culture, infrastructure ...

Anybody think a few more folks might like to come to California?
What would happen if, oh say, about another 38 million showed up to enjoy the promised land?
50 million? More? I hear a LOT of folks don't like the weather in the mid-west and south and east coast.
You have to be kidding me...I am pretty liberal (socially) but its evidently clear that out of control pension costs, spending on illegals, red tape, etc. is driving all the PRODUCTIVE population and businesses out of this state. What you will end up is a state full of illegals, welfare moochers and people living off bloated pensions. If all the productive members of the society flee the state, then where is the money to pay for all these dolts? You will end up with a BROKE state with no money and DEPRESSION like conditions, probably 50% or greater unemployment. Is that what you want? To see huge number of Californians homeless and begging on streets?

The cost of living is high in this state partly because it is a very desirable in terms of weather, nature, social attitudes. That part wont change. However, many businesses and productive members will put up with that aspect PROVIDED we give them a break with lower taxation, common sense regulation, getting rid of public sector pensions and illegal alien welfare which are DESTROYING the state's economy. The first thing to do is to get rid of these pensions for BOTH current and future employees.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,730 posts, read 5,287,941 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
So, this drumbeat we read in the forum constantly about the title issues ruining the state:
high taxes, high welfare numbers, illegals, business red tape ...
Let's see what you all think would happen if the "problems" magically disappeared
Actually, at one time California was like this, with minimal problems, but very few are old enough to have experienced this era, and only relate to this time in a historical context. The pre and post World War II era was when California was truly the Golden State. The depression of the 30's was not felt as severely here as in other parts of the nation, and the late 40's and 50's were boom times. Then our problems became more severe as hordes flooded in, and now appear to be unsolvable and irrreversible.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:53 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,815,694 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by analyze_this View Post
You have to be kidding me...I am pretty liberal (socially) but its evidently clear that out of control pension costs, spending on illegals, red tape, etc. is driving all the PRODUCTIVE population and businesses out of this state. What you will end up is a state full of illegals, welfare moochers and people living off bloated pensions. If all the productive members of the society flee the state, then where is the money to pay for all these dolts? You will end up with a BROKE state with no money and DEPRESSION like conditions, probably 50% or greater unemployment. Is that what you want? To see huge number of Californians homeless and begging on streets?

The cost of living is high in this state partly because it is a very desirable in terms of weather, nature, social attitudes. That part wont change. However, many businesses and productive members will put up with that aspect PROVIDED we give them a break with lower taxation, common sense regulation, getting rid of public sector pensions and illegal alien welfare which are DESTROYING the state's economy. The first thing to do is to get rid of these pensions for BOTH current and future employees.
You did not address the questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Actually, at one time California was like this, with minimal problems, but very few are old enough to have experienced this era, and only relate to this time in a historical context. The pre and post World War II era was when California was truly the Golden State. The depression of the 30's was not felt as severely here as in other parts of the nation, and the late 40's and 50's were boom times. Then our problems became more severe as hordes flooded in, and now appear to be unsolvable and irrreversible.
Yes. Actually California was closer to what I described ... at one time ... when populations were low. When I first lived in California, the population was about exactly half that of now. And the population exploded with "hordes [flooding] in" ...

So, the question is, again: what would happen if the state solved all these issues that supposedly are keeping growth at bay ... and once again became as popular as it was when the "hordes [were flooding] in"?
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:00 AM
 
1,213 posts, read 1,320,474 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
You did not address the questions.

Yes. Actually California was closer to what I described ... at one time ... when populations were low. When I first lived in California, the population was about exactly half that of now. And the population exploded with "hordes [flooding] in" ...

So, the question is, again: what would happen if the state solved all these issues that supposedly are keeping growth at bay ... and once again became as popular as it was when the "hordes [were flooding] in"?
I have addressed the question. Do you want the remaining businesses and productive people to flee the state leaving behind nothing but welfare moochers, illegal aliens and lavishly retired workers? How many businesses and citizens will be willing to devote ALL their taxes just to fund the lavish retirements while gutting education and infrastructure?

Forget about any growth, what you will see instead are Depression era conditions. Is that what you want?
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:02 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
9,033 posts, read 8,765,058 times
Reputation: 5666
Quote:
Originally Posted by analyze_this View Post
I have addressed the question. Do you want the remaining businesses and productive people to flee the state leaving behind nothing but welfare moochers, illegal aliens and lavishly retired workers?
Um... the premise of the OP is that California would somehow magically get rid of those high taxes, illegals, regulations, etc. So we're being invited to imagine what would become of CA if none of those things existed.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:06 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,815,694 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Um... the premise of the OP is that California would somehow magically get rid of those high taxes, illegals, regulations, etc. So we're being invited to imagine what would become of CA if none of those things existed.
Thank you ... let's see if I can access the rep button for you again yet ...

uh, nope ... but I'll get back to you ...
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,417 posts, read 9,168,115 times
Reputation: 13148
Quote:
Originally Posted by analyze_this View Post
You have to be kidding me...I am pretty liberal (socially) but its evidently clear that out of control pension costs, spending on illegals, red tape, etc. is driving all the PRODUCTIVE population and businesses out of this state. What you will end up is a state full of illegals, welfare moochers and people living off bloated pensions. If all the productive members of the society flee the state, then where is the money to pay for all these dolts? You will end up with a BROKE state with no money and DEPRESSION like conditions, probably 50% or greater unemployment. Is that what you want? To see huge number of Californians homeless and begging on streets?

The cost of living is high in this state partly because it is a very desirable in terms of weather, nature, social attitudes. That part wont change. However, many businesses and productive members will put up with that aspect PROVIDED we give them a break with lower taxation, common sense regulation, getting rid of public sector pensions and illegal alien welfare which are DESTROYING the state's economy. The first thing to do is to get rid of these pensions for BOTH current and future employees.
Ya know it is kinda funny, but the reason the illegals are here is because of Jobs. If, as you say, all of the productive businesses leave then so will the illegals as they are chasing the money. And since no one will have a job, the cost of living goes down (note how inexpensive houses are these days in CA).

One more point. I work in conjuction with the Welfare department and let me inform all that will listen: you can't get welfare of any sort unless you are a citizen or a legal resident of our Fair State. The only exception is certain types of medical care.

Last edited by Mr5150; 08-22-2012 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:12 AM
 
1,213 posts, read 1,320,474 times
Reputation: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Ya know it is kinda funny, but the reason the illegals are here is because of Jobs. If, as you say, all of the productive businesses leave then so will the illegals as they are chasing the money. And since no one will have a job, the cost of living goes down (note how inexpensive houses are these days in CA).

One more point. I work in conjuction with the Welfare department and let me inform all that will listen: you can't get welfare of any sort unless you are a citizen or a legal resident of our Fair State. The only exception is certain types of medical care.
You are really out of your mind, is that what you want? Massive unemployment and depression like conditions just so the cost of living goes down? My God, if this kind of far left selfish (fiscally) liberal thinking is endemic in our state then we really have no hope.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:15 AM
 
1,271 posts, read 2,165,183 times
Reputation: 619
Maybe you should add lower housing costs. Housing is the biggest factor for many, at least where the jobs are in the state, Bay Area and beyond.
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