Volkswagen opens large R&D facility in Oxnard (Irvine: construction, cost of)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

This is a good thing... Imagine that a company from highly regulated Socialist Europe bringing jobs to the land of "personal freedom"

Yep bringing jobs to ... Tennessee where the new manufacturing facility is.

Minimal jobs in CA and Lots of jobs in TN.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Yep bringing jobs to ... Tennessee where the new manufacturing facility is.

Minimal jobs in CA and Lots of jobs in TN.

Assembling Subaru in TN to I believe.. One step up from assembling in Mexico....LOL (No, just kidding thats good for TN..)

IMO best to keep the brains/innovation side of things in CA... Limited resources for big rust belt manufacturing plants in CA anyway..

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

Assembling Subaru in TN to I believe.. One step up from assembling in Mexico....LOL (No, just kidding thats good for TN..)

IMO best to keep the brains/innovation side of things in CA... Limited resources for big rust belt manufacturing plants in CA anyway..

Yep the tech jobs of development in CA, which keeps the population down and the blue collar and supervisor jobs elsewhere, though more money is spent on those, so TN (as an example) gets more out of it than CA.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

My Dad has a TDI Passat Wagon and the thing really is larger than a Camry or Accord but gets better mileage than just about anything on the road. I mean room for five full sized adults plus a massive station wagon back for carrying stuff but it still gets 50+mpg? My one complaint is when I drive it (which I've only done twice) it seems a bit gutless off the line but I suppose you can't have everything. The six speed manual is very smooth though and having an extra gear really does help with the fuel economy.

Diesels hesitate off the line, you get used to it. I replaced my Ford Diesel with a Ford gas and I have to get used to the truck jumping when I give it gas off a start.

The problem with most diesels these days is that they have to pass CA smog, so they are tweaked beyond recognition. I can work on my tractors, not on my trucks.

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Yep bringing jobs to ... Tennessee where the new manufacturing facility is.

Minimal jobs in CA and Lots of jobs in TN.

Tennessee will never get the massive cash subsidies back from that factory plus the huge tax breaks and the free utilities, etc... The amount of tax breaks and just out right cash in hand which they paid to VW to get that factory is more than the state expects to get from the factory and it's workers in taxes for a full 20 years and that isn't even counting the interest or opportunity costs. I honestly don't think they'll ever get even on that deal; the subsidies were just the huge.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

Tennessee will never get the massive cash subsidies back from that factory plus the huge tax breaks and the free utilities, etc... The amount of tax breaks and just out right cash in hand which they paid to VW to get that factory is more than the state expects to get from the factory and it's workers in taxes for a full 20 years and that isn't even counting the interest or opportunity costs. I honestly don't think they'll ever get even on that deal; the subsidies were just the huge.

Well TN seems to be doing pretty well and I was just in Cleveland, TN on a trip, where the plant is and the area is growing, so I suspect it was money well spent VS empty land and no jobs. Looks like a very good deal for TN.

[Think4Yourself]

They gave the almost $600 million up front. There is a legit debate to be had if subsidies that HUGE are really justified because that's money that can't be spent on roads, on schools, on police, or anything else the people of the state need. Then there is the interest costs and the opportunity costs to be considered.

The hard truth is they will never get financially even on this factory especially since there are a ton of tax breaks and freebies tossed in as well as the cash. I'm not sure why everyone else's taxes should go up or have education and police spending cut just so a politician can brag about landing a factory. "Victories" like that tax payers can do without.

[pjg66]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

No one wants to buy a car designed in Texas or Georgia but the companies line up to get their cars designed in California.

Yes, they may design their cars in California, but they build them elsewhere.

According to a recent newspaper article (believe the data is for 2011), the top auto manufacturing states:

1) Tennessee
2) South Carolina
3) Georgia
4) Kentucky
5) Alabama
6) Michigan
7) Ohio
8) Mississippi
9) Texas
10) Indiana

The center of gravity for automobile manufacturing in the U.S. is migrating to the South.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

They gave the almost $600 million up front. There is a legit debate to be had if subsidies that HUGE are really justified because that's money that can't be spent on roads, on schools, on police, or anything else the people of the state need. Then there is the interest costs and the opportunity costs to be considered.

The hard truth is they will never get financially even on this factory especially since there are a ton of tax breaks and freebies tossed in as well as the cash. I'm not sure why everyone else's taxes should go up or have education and police spending cut just so a politician can brag about landing a factory. "Victories" like that tax payers can do without.

Lets see, at an average of $20 an hour for the 2000 plus employed there (All levels of employment), that is about $50,000,000.00 per year in salary for a single 40 hour shift. Then we add all the State (Unemployment only) and Fed taxes, SSI, etc and the figure grows another 2o% or so. Then the influx of employes beyond locals brings new rental income, home sales, sales in the stores, car purchases, etc. This will go on year after year after year after ..... Now lets compare that to the CA High Speed Rail that will cost Billions and I suspect TN got the better deal. TN is getting a return on it's investment right now. CA will get a return when?

That does not count the money made building the plant and all that went with it. The factory will produce income for a looooong time. The High Speed rail will certainly put some money in the construction of it eventually, but the return in "sales" will not cover the cost for a generation or two, if ever.

Oh, no taxes went up, no cuts in police etc. It is a growing economy there not what you picture at all. I just got back from a second trip to Chattanooga and aside from the beauty the area is thriving.

I checked and a normal property tax in Chattanooga, near the plant, which is actually closer to Cleveland, TN is about $715.00 per $100,000.00. That is a fraction of the tax on my property in Riverside County.

Police hiring it is going up. I found one thread with new recruits coming from all over the US and potentially a new academy opening. I don't live there so I am not sure of the details, but it looks like they now have more money for police, not less.

Could not find any hard data on education except there is a significant list of openings for a variety of teaching skills.

It seems getting the plant, at the cost, is a net gain for the local and State economy, not a loss. Imagine 2000 new jobs in say So Cal, maybe in Poway outside of SD and all the revenue it is bringing. Would I like the same level of taxation on my property as in the city of Chattanooga, you bet, it would cut my tax bill in half or better. Oh, no State income tax either so more take home pay. Why can't we do that in CA? Car license fee regardless of year is about $30.00 per car. Maybe we could hire their State legislature and Governor and see some big changes in CA?

[Gemdiver]

We have something even better than TN.

We have ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!

They will do the job for peanuts!