Prop 30 poll (bankrupt, income, income tax)

[Dean Trails]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Don't y'all just love threats and intimidation used to urge a particular vote on a particular matter? "if you don't give me what I want yours what's going to happen to you." Of course, the reality is, if you do give him what he wants there's no guarantee you'll get what you bargained for. Win, lose or draw, this is going to be interesting.

Brings to mind that great movie, "Blazing Saddles". Don't shoot me or the black guy gets it!" All the time holdning the guy to his own head. Mel Brooks is corny sometimes but, make me chuckle.

Now, i suppose, Jerry is practicing for a new career after Gavin Newsome becomes Govenor. He is trying out his material!

[Youthanasia]

Even if the measure fails, funding for schools is expected to increase 21 percent from 2012 to 2015 because of economic growth. The $6 billion trigger-cut figure stems from the fact that he and the Legislature started the budget year by assuming that Proposition 30 would pass.


Look at it this way: Say you're expecting a $100-per-week raise at work. But then you don't get it, and you tell your friends that you have to cut back by $100 a week.


Still, it would mean reductions for schools. If they don't get that raise, they will have to cut the second half of the school year compared to the first half. This would come on top of a 7.9 percent drop in per-student spending over the past four years, according to a new report by Moody's Investors Services.


John Mockler, Brown's campaign finance adviser, argues that the proposed cuts would hit hard because the state has partially solved its financial problems in recent years by borrowing and using gimmicks that no longer work. He likened it to paying your rent with a credit card for months while hoping that your finances will turn around.


"At some point, you owe so much you stop putting the rent on the credit card," Mockler said.

and when pressed that the holding education hostage is a scare tactic the guy flips out -

If Proposition 30 fails, Brown says he will make the $6 billion in trigger cuts. But he has several options to avoid that.
The governor could call in the Legislature after the election and find other areas of the budget to slash, though outside experts who have reviewed the budget are skeptical that politicians will be able to find more money to pull from programs such as prisons, health services and aid to the poor and disabled.
Mockler said he's angered at the suggestion that Brown is bluffing on the trigger cuts and advises people who did not think education needs more money to "go visit a damn school," where he says California is spending $80,000 less per classroom than the average U.S. state.

Proposition 30 analysis: Does California need more tax money? - San Bernardino County Sun

so they already figured prop 30 money into the budget, hedging their bets that it would pass...then he goes on to say that the schemes and gimmicks don't work anymore... uhhh... what do you think that counting money you don't have yet is?

[Leonard64]

Originally Posted by Youthanasia

and when pressed that the holding education hostage is a scare tactic the guy flips out -



Proposition 30 analysis: Does California need more tax money? - San Bernardino County Sun

so they already figured prop 30 money into the budget, hedging their bets that it would pass...then he goes on to say that the schemes and gimmicks don't work anymore... uhhh... what do you think that counting money you don't have yet is?

Wonder how many redundant programs there are that can be cut, getting rid of political supporters who got nice fat paying jobs for doing minimal work?

[VLWH]

Originally Posted by jeffredo

I voted yes. I can hand a quarter cent sales tax increase and I don't make 250,000+ a year. I do have a lot of nieces and nephews in public schools (and soon to be in college) and they really need help.

Originally Posted by jeffredo

Actually, I think the elephant in the room is that white and Asian residents of California don't want to spend money on educating Hispanic/Mexican children they feel don't belong here in the first place (since many are the result of illegal immigration). Most of their kids are shielded/segregated in wealthier schools districts that will be funded via property tax assessments that they'll willingly pay since it benefits only their community, or they're home schooled or are in private schools. Its beginning to look a lot like Latin America or South Africa here. I guess when they have to have fences with electric razor wire, burglar bars, alarms and attack dogs to keep the product of this mindset away from their homes it might sink in they should have properly educated those kids to begin with (who aren't going anywhere). Either that or move to Coeur d'Alene or Bend to buy them some time.

(waits for the feigned indignation)

Did you actually read the text of the prop? Your premise about race/ethnic is insane and quite insulting, the truth is no where in the prop does it guarantee the money would be spent in the classroom nor prevents the state from cutting the school budget further based on revenue raised.

Yes a quarter cent tax is not that much, but add on to the amount we already and the numerous taxes on top, then it gets to really add up. Also, quite a few counties are or will be adding props to raise revenue through raising the sales tax. Enough is enough.

[suissegrl702]

Oh yawn. Where oh where have I heard this crap sandwich before? The if the tax hike doesn't pass the children won't get educated and whine whine whine whine whine. I thought California was the bellwether not the copycat? I've seen this crap played out in Nevada and Utah since the 1990s. I'm a product of the CCSD (the Clark County School District in Nevada) and the Davis County School District in Utah. They use this same stupid tactic over and over again. Growing up my parents would happily vote for the crap sandwich measures and not a dime of it went to the children and in most cases not a dime went to the classrooms or the teachers either. I think my senior year in high school the teachers got a quarter raise and they actually bought one new set of Algebra books for everyone to share.

I attend a California community college and I am voting no on this. Not a dime will go to me and I know it. I'm sure there will still be class cuts and layoffs and fees will go up, even with this crap sandwich. I am as immune to government types screaming "won't someone please think of the children!" as I am to the sound of slot machines and the spiel of Mormon missionaries. Not a dime of this will go where its needed. Mark my words. And if by some miracle this passes, Brown will try it again. If not him then his successor. Because once the government figures out that you can scare people into voting for things if they think their kids are threatened, the government hopes the gullible will do it again. And again. And not a single dime will go to the kids, to the classroom, to the teachers, to the colleges or anything else.

As for the argument that professors have to be paid because talent is drawn from all over the place, well, guess what, the argument is invalid, as all 50 states are cutting colleges over and over again. I also read that same tired, boring, lame-o argument in the Salt Lake Tribune for why Utahans should vote for some measure because the U won't be able to attract top talent anymore. *Yawn* Could you educators please come up with something original? I'm only 29 and I've heard it all, and best of all, I went to the failing public schools in Utah and Nevada and never saw a dime after voters passed tax measures in those states. I'm going to be honest: Nevada and Utah have better governments than California does. I don't hold much faith in this state's government. Those of you from here have no idea how bloated this state is. Its ridiculous. Time to trim the fat.

And will the governments of California, Nevada, Utah, Texas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Arizona, Tennessee, Colorado, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida please do everyone in the country a favor and figure out who truly is the worst for funding public education? Because the newspapers in all these states have claimed that their state is dead last or second to dead last in per pupil spending, and mathematically speaking, it can't be true that all those states are the worst for per pupil spending.

[Zelva]

^^^ Sounds like you've 'been around' for your age - and paying attention!! That's GREAT!! Yeah, I'm tired of the broken record too. LOL They really should try to find a new one to try out on us.

[artisan4]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

So far the numbers are quite a bit different than the polls I have been seeing in the media.

You're right.

Jerry Brown And Proposition 30: Poll Finds Governor's Tax Plan May Pass

[Youthanasia]

Originally Posted by suissegrl702

I attend a California community college and I am voting no on this. Not a dime will go to me and I know it. I'm sure there will still be class cuts and layoffs and fees will go up, even with this crap sandwich. I am as immune to government types screaming "won't someone please think of the children!" as I am to the sound of slot machines and the spiel of Mormon missionaries. Not a dime of this will go where its needed. Mark my words. And if by some miracle this passes, Brown will try it again. If not him then his successor. Because once the government figures out that you can scare people into voting for things if they think their kids are threatened, the government hopes the gullible will do it again. And again. And not a single dime will go to the kids, to the classroom, to the teachers, to the colleges or anything else.

There it is right there... and once this passes (and I think it will, because California doesn't know a tax that it doesn't love) the excuses will come about why the money wasn't used for schools... then a new hostage initiative will be put together to raise taxes, but this time FOR REALS for schools...for reals, trust us... round and round we go.

Artisan4 - the undecided tend to vote no when it comes time to vote, if they don't understand something and it costs them more money then they vote no most of the time so that 14 point undecided is really where it comes down to but like I said California doesn't know a tax that it doesn't love so I expect it to pass, by a thin margin and then the excuses will come why Brown used it all on local law enforcement to finance his public safety realignment and to teacher pensions... taxpayers get it in the pooper and they sign up to do it all over again, cause they love it.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Youthanasia

There it is right there... and once this passes (and I think it will, because California doesn't know a tax that it doesn't love) the excuses will come about why the money wasn't used for schools... then a new hostage initiative will be put together to raise taxes, but this time FOR REALS for schools...for reals, trust us... round and round we go.

Artisan4 - the undecided tend to vote no when it comes time to vote, if they don't understand something and it costs them more money then they vote no most of the time so that 14 point undecided is really where it comes down to but like I said California doesn't know a tax that it doesn't love so I expect it to pass, by a thin margin and then the excuses will come why Brown used it all on local law enforcement to finance his public safety realignment and to teacher pensions... taxpayers get it in the pooper and they sign up to do it all over again, cause they love it.

And at the City level it's the same boring lies over and over. They still have over a billion from the last prop UNSPENT yet they are already trolling for more cash.

The real horn honk should be:

Think about the pensions or won't you all think about the pensions, instead of the children. It's like having a child with a drug problem you try to bail out with money.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

The real horn honk should be: Think about the pensions.

Agreed, except that apparently that can't be done very quickly. They have to cut pension costs over a period of time (which I didn't know). Proposition 30 and what it means for California's budget - latimes.com