Is a Wealth Tax next? (Montclair: schools, taxi, income)

[ambient]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

You make a very good point - one that is difficult to refute based on logic. But this isn't about logic -- it is about demographics. A basic social safety net and public education which most everyone can agree upon will be crowded out by non-discretionary claims on the public coffers.

See for example $5 Trillion Price Tag for Public Pensions - The Best Life (usnews.com)

At some point, money available for safety nets and for K-12 education will instead be siphoned off to pay for things that are higher priority, and public sector pensions are just one of those. There isn't enough money even after this election to pay for everything forever.

So - the state will at some point the state will again say "the safety net is being cut past the bone; K-12 education will be cut to be unrecognizeable unless we raise more money. It is time for a wealth tax."

That's the hypothetical argument.

And that's the point at which we become Greece.

Because if the economic system produces a pie so lopsided that we have to keep taking from the rich in ever greater rates just to stay afloat, then the whole thing is just unsustainable. We will have to declare bankruptcy as a nation and start over.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by cb73

... And "a haircut for the most wealthy"??? You mean the people who started businesses, working 16 hours a day to grow them? The people who gave you jobs? The people who already support charities and all kinds of needs in the communities?...

In a word, yes. That isn't MY goal; it is a stated goal of some on the far left.

[oldtrader]

See map on post #3, to see the difference between the money moving into the state, and out of the state in taxes than money moving in. In fact there is 47.5% more tax dollars leaving the state than moving in. Those that are taking their jobs and businesses out of the state are taking a lot more money out, than is coming into the state in the form of taxes. And note how many more tax payers are leaving the state than the ones entering the state, even though the total population is not changing much. Indicates that a lot of the new arrivals replacing those that are leaving are not making enough money to be paying income taxes. It shows that the state is turning from a solid middle class state, to a poor state.

For people who want to leave CA, what state has become the most popular to move to?

The fact, that the state has such a high unemployment rate coupled with the businesses leaving, is a solid indication that a lot of good jobs are leaving the state. The old businesses leaving the state are taking more jobs from the state, than the ones that are created are producing jobs (remember California looses on the average, one middle to large size business every working day of every week all year long).

Put on a wealth tax, and watch the money and jobs leaving the state accelerate. It will also put another factor to keep new money and jobs from moving into the state.

[Bayarea4]

This entire thread is based on the premise that the mysterious "they," whose identity the OP does not reveal, are quietly circulating the idea of a wealth tax. Is there any outside source for this information, or is this just another Fox News style "some say" speculation based on nothing? I love how people get their panties all in a twist over scare stories without checking sources to verify whether there are any actual facts behind them.

[oldtrader]

How about the California Secretary Of State, for a source. This is certainly not Fox News.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/admin/press-re...0/db10-020.pdf

New wealth tax idea punishes success

Californians approve massive tax hike on the wealthy - Nov. 7, 2012

The out migration of middle class, and upper class residents is currently 225,000 per year in California. The Brown tax will in itself drive even more out, taking their jobs and taxes with them. If the so called Wealth Tax happens, then that number will increase even more rapidly to liken a dam bursting.

[jw2]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

How about the California Secretary Of State, for a source. This is certainly not Fox News.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/admin/press-re...0/db10-020.pdf

New wealth tax idea punishes success

Californians approve massive tax hike on the wealthy - Nov. 7, 2012

The out migration of middle class, and upper class residents is currently 225,000 per year in California. The Brown tax will in itself drive even more out, taking their jobs and taxes with them. If the so called Wealth Tax happens, then that number will increase even more rapidly to liken a dam bursting.

You may be confusing what California publishes, in this case a notice that an initiative may start collecting petition signatures versus what the state legislature is actually considering.

On the initiative, it is from one guy, Paul McCauley, that has this grand plan of stripping all the money from the wealthy buying controlling interest in several large companies (oil, auto, big banks etc.), and dissolving them. All in the name of the environment.

He didn't receive the signatures. It never made it on any ballot.

You can read his plan here http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/ini...ve_09-0095.pdf

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by ambient

And that's the point at which we become Greece.

Where do you people get this stuff from?

From a fiscal solvency standpoint, Greece's problem is that is speculators have downgraded their bonds into near worthlessness. Greece and most industrialized nations are living well beyond their means at this time. On the other hand, California's debt to GDP ratio is 5%, and that would rank among the world's most fiscally STABLE nations. California's external debt would be LOWER THAN CHINA's.

List of countries by external debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Califiornia needs serious reform indeed, by why are we likened to Greece? That's ridiculous.

And as far as the grass-is-always-greener people....

Republican legislators even took a trip to Texas to discover the Great Secret. When they came back, without saying much of anything about what they found, they introduced a 30-bill legislative package. In front of a Carl’s Jr. full of minimum-wage workers, they said it would cure what ails us.

Before and after the trip, the Republicans jack-hammered a variation of the factoid that has lifted their entire enterprise: “From 2008 to 2010, Texas added more than 165,000 jobs, while California lost 1.2 million.” Problem is, it’s bunk. From 2008 to 2010, according to the Texas Workforce Commission, Texas lost 352,500 jobs.

The data also paints a distorted picture of California. Those who employ it take a number that reflects the recession’s impact and sell it as evidence of a chronically hostile business climate.

The recession hit California earlier and harder than most states, and the housing market tanked deeper here during the recession than any other state. Yes, it cost California a lot of jobs from 2008 to 2010 (1.1 million, not 1.2 million, including close to 500,000 construction-related jobs). But does anyone seriously think the collapse of the national mortgage and housing market had anything to do with California’s business climate? Consider: Before the recession, from 2000-2007, California added 1.13 million jobs.

California’s homegrown detractors ignore other data as they award Texas their seal of approval and stamp a big “REJECT” sign on their own state.

California towers above Texas and all other states in venture capital investment. In 2010, California had 1,089 deals worth $12 billion. Texas? Less than 300 deals and less than $2.5 billion. From 1999-2009, California’s real GDP grew by 27.2 percent, compared to Texas’ 25.9 percent. From 2002-10, California created more jobs than Texas in the following manufacturing sectors – semiconductors, computers, communications equipment, and medical equipment and other durable goods. As a percentage of what businesses produce, California takes less in taxes than Texas (4.7 percent, compared to 4.9 percent).



Capitol Weekly: Opinion: Fact and fiction in the California-versus-Texas debate

Hahaha...

[18Montclair]

State of the States - Barrons.com

The unfunded pension liability the state currently shoulders amounts to 1.9% of our GDP, and when we combine outstanding general obligation bond debt and pension liability debt it still amounts to 6.8% of our GDP. California is in better shape in this regard than ANY economy in the world the same size as CA.

Canada's debt is 64% of its GDP for example.

And no one is saying that things are peachy, but the facts and data really prove that we are NOT in as bad shape as some people actually WANT to believe because they hate Liberals or they hate Mexicans(or both)

[Social Democrat]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

State of the States - Barrons.com

The unfunded pension liability the state currently shoulders amounts to 1.9% of our GDP, and when we combine outstanding general obligation bond debt and pension liability debt it still amounts to 6.8% of our GDP. California is in better shape in this regard than ANY economy in the world the same size as CA.

Canada's debt is 64% of its GDP for example.

And no one is saying that things are peachy, but the facts and data really prove that we are NOT in as bad shape as some people actually WANT to believe because they hate Liberals or they hate Mexicans(or both)

Always good to see sanity brought into these discussions!

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Think About It!

I am not in favor of this at all. When is enough, enough? I know we live in a socialist society but are the people of this country that clueless to what's going on around the world with the socialist societies crumbling?

In the mind of the Socialist Pig, it is never enough.

As long as there are some Capitalists left standing, the Socialist's work is never done.

After all, a trough is a trough, and slop is slop.