A Lament For Two Cougar Cubs (Half Moon Bay: homes, camp, area)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

Cause there're cities and farms everywhere, they have nowhere to go.. it's not the cat population that's out of control.

There are no Cities or farms there and most of it is either remote wilderness or BLM and National Forest. I will agree they have "no where to go" because they can't cross the desert, the border fence or the Pacific Ocean. For whatever reason they won't go North either.

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

Cause there're cities and farms everywhere, they have nowhere to go.. it's not the cat population that's out of control.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

Perhaps because average person from existing non-sustainable overbloated civilization generates huge amounts of garbage and such is found everywhere where wilderness should be (versus sprawling dwellings), and people with a lot of money who can afford prime land lots still do not wish to invest in animal-proof trash cans?
As to the "formerly rural/pastoral" areas... if I'm not mistaken, those only been around for a little over 1.5 hundred of years, after quick-and-dirty extermination of the original population that lived more-or-less in harmony with environment... just a thought.

Let me try to give away a clue to you because you can't buy one.

To be precise, that locale is part of the "Waste Zero" zone of Recology San Mateo County.

As such, there are quasi-Germanic controls regarding which bins you put what in.

And said bins (consisting of blocky cans on wheels with hinged tops) are a boon to garbage addicted fauna.

Even the little ones, namely, racoons, are adept at the act of toppling. The oh-so-green "compost" ones (which actually allow MEAT! after all, we're talking WASTE ZERO here!) are particular favorites.

[alexxiz]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

There are no Cities or farms there and most of it is either remote wilderness or BLM and National Forest. I will agree they have "no where to go" because they can't cross the desert, the border fence or the Pacific Ocean. For whatever reason they won't go North either.

Not really... warm parts CA is full of farms and developments (hence "beautiful" Central Valley air, you feel the stench once you drive down to 1000ft from the Sierra or "wild and unspoiled" SoCal). Since cougars don't hybernate it's hard for them to be in snow areas, where most National Forests are. Once they establish hunting ground, they try to stick there, I think, not being seasonal migratory animals as they'd have to fight to re-establish their feeding area in the new location. Perhaps they don't go North, if you meant moving to Oregon, cause they don't want to be stuck in the freezing rain.

[alexxiz]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Let me try to give away a clue to you because you can't buy one.

To be precise, that locale is part of the "Waste Zero" zone of Recology San Mateo County.

As such, there are quasi-Germanic controls regarding which bins you put what in.

And said bins (consisting of blocky cans on wheels with hinged tops) are a boon to garbage addicted fauna.

Even the little ones, namely, racoons, are adept at the act of toppling. The oh-so-green "compost" ones (which actually allow MEAT! after all, we're talking WASTE ZERO here!) are particular favorites.

I'm not sure what exact type of bins you're talking about. Large bear-proof containers do work, didn't see them taken over. Now, an average person generates so much food-related trash (packaging mostly) that they end up having to put their trash cans out of the house for pick up, as it's apparently too much for them to take it every couple of days to a centralized (and animal-proof) location (say, if someone only had a small bag of trash per day, they could store it inside the house or could easily take them to a large, shared animal-proof dumpster). But people feel they have to put their bins out in front of the house for pick up and store the trash outside the house--because the amounts of trash are simply huge, from un-sustainable luxury lifestyle. I was wondering all along about how Indians dealt with animal problems, and apparently they handled it without metal locked containers, still not having their supplies ravaged.

This reminds me of all these Tahoe area property owners, who like brag how they love bears, yet not even bother to get bear-proof dumpsters for their tenants.

[Gentoo]

So many well intended but off base responses. The cougar population in California isn't confined to it by the barriers mentioned. They can and do cross mountain ranges. They are Mountain Lions after all. There is plenty of documentaries showing these cats hunting in the snow and their natural range extends from Alaska to the southern Andies.

When we say they have no where to go, what's meant is younger animals like these cannot establish territories nearby. They're forced to cross civilization. Many actually probably do so successfully without ever being detected by humans. Ever wonder what your dog is barking at sometimes when you see nothing? And its the human population out of control. How arrogant to believe that we own and control nature.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

Not really... warm parts CA is full of farms and developments (hence "beautiful" Central Valley air, you feel the stench once you drive down to 1000ft from the Sierra or "wild and unspoiled" SoCal). Since cougars don't hybernate it's hard for them to be in snow areas, where most National Forests are. Once they establish hunting ground, they try to stick there, I think, not being seasonal migratory animals as they'd have to fight to re-establish their feeding area in the new location. Perhaps they don't go North, if you meant moving to Oregon, cause they don't want to be stuck in the freezing rain.

The area I'm talking about is from Moreno Valley to the border fence. The snow doesn't bother these local cats at all. I see them and their tracks all winter and they don't even know I'm there when I'm in my tree stand.

I am concerned about years of drought that will diminish food supplies. We had years of Does with twins but we aren't seeing that now.

[alexxiz]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

So many well intended but off base responses. The cougar population in California isn't confined to it by the barriers mentioned. They can and do cross mountain ranges. They are Mountain Lions after all. There is plenty of documentaries showing these cats hunting in the snow and their natural range extends from Alaska to the southern Andies.

When we say they have no where to go, what's meant is younger animals like these cannot establish territories nearby. They're forced to cross civilization. Many actually probably do so successfully without ever being detected by humans. Ever wonder what your dog is barking at sometimes when you see nothing? And its the human population out of control. How arrogant to believe that we own and control nature.

Yes, plenty of lions live in snow areas, they can live in the snow. What I meant is that lions that grew up in the warmer/mild climes, such as coastal CA, aren't inclined to move to snowy cold places from their original territories (to make space for humans), the big change means less chance of survival. If you take, say, a Florida Panther (which is a montain lion) and transport it to Alaska overnight, in winter...I'm not even sure the cat would survive.

It's pretty amazing how animals can tolerate the cold--humans lost all adaptations to the environment and became slaves of technology, this is pretty scary. One (well, the most) has to have a heater or a fire to survive, pretty much, even when it doesn't drop below freezing... I, personally, don't have the "Bambi" mentality, in fact, I'm afraid to get eaten by a mountain lion, as I always tend to be in the woods by myself. But I feel I'm just a guest and intruder in the woods, as I can't survive there without technology/tools (in fact, probably can't survive with tools alone, without using the services from civilization), while animals belong there; humans just don't belong anymore.

[.highnlite]

Humans and have always used technology to compensate for their limitations. Humans have historically lived with predators and are not "guests" or "intruder"s in the woods, there are no "woods" in the world where humans have not lived aside from modern controlled access to certain lands.

The mountain lion is not very interested in making a meal of you. Mountain lions prefer venison. Consider this, on millions of acres of grazing land in California cows, including their young live unguarded by man. Predation of cattle including calves by mountain lions is negligible. If mountain lions were opportunistic killers interested in eating any mammal, those cattle would be in danger, they aren't. Same goes with humans. You can assume that if you are in a lion habitat, it undoubtedly knows you are there, yet your chances of being attacked are near zero.

In wilderness, our dogs and stock will often alert us to a lion, we have found lion tracks within 30 feet of our tents. Yet, the stock, highlined and vulnerable have never been attacked.

If one has a fear of lions, or bears, hike and camp with a dog. Predators will generally avoid dogs. Particularly barking dogs.

A lion unlike a bear calculates its chances of injury and will avoid situations that could result in injury.

A cautionary tale; A friend of mine, not the brightest lightbulb camps with a Glock 9 mill pistol. One night a bear came to his camp, as they do to many camps many times. This fellow decided he was in danger and shot the bear with his pistol. That pissed off the bear, It took 2 10 round clips of 9 mill ammo to kill the bear.

He did a majorly stupid stunt and was fortunate that he was not shooting an aggressive bear, which could have taken him apart.

Carrying a gun to protect oneself from critters is generally a dumb idea. I have lived and worked in the wood, the mountains, and the deserts of the intermountain west for nearly 6 decades and have never felt threatened by an animal. I have never felt that I needed a weapon to protect me from critters.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by alexxiz

Yes, plenty of lions live in snow areas, they can live in the snow. What I meant is that lions that grew up in the warmer/mild climes, such as coastal CA, aren't inclined to move to snowy cold places from their original territories (to make space for humans), the big change means less chance of survival. If you take, say, a Florida Panther (which is a montain lion) and transport it to Alaska overnight, in winter...I'm not even sure the cat would survive.

It's pretty amazing how animals can tolerate the cold--humans lost all adaptations to the environment and became slaves of technology, this is pretty scary. One (well, the most) has to have a heater or a fire to survive, pretty much, even when it doesn't drop below freezing... I, personally, don't have the "Bambi" mentality, in fact, I'm afraid to get eaten by a mountain lion, as I always tend to be in the woods by myself. But I feel I'm just a guest and intruder in the woods, as I can't survive there without technology/tools (in fact, probably can't survive with tools alone, without using the services from civilization), while animals belong there; humans just don't belong anymore.

your entire post makes more sense than I think you're aware of. I completely understand what you are saying. But I would use the same logic with humans you just did with mountain lions. Humans can survive in a wild state. There are those in remote regions of the world who still do. However we can't. Put us in a hunter gatherer society and we'd perish with the quickness.

A Florida Panther likely couldn't even survive in California. They're smaller for starters, Bergmann's rule at work there being adapted for a warmer climate. Their fur is also redder, helps blend in better in Florida but could be a problem out here.