California Math and the 3.6% (credit, taxi, income tax)

[Leonard64]

Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile

I don't see anything wrong with living east of the 100th meridian. I was raised east of the 100th meridian, and I had a fabulous life and many fantastic memories there. If it had warmer winters, it would give CA a run for its money.

Everyone has different priorities. If remaining close to family that lives on the east coast is of priority, well, guess where you are living? In addition to that, there are many things to cherish about the east coast, and many things I miss terribly about the east coast when I'm in CA.

What I have an issue with are those that use taxes as a main reason to knock CA. Taxes are just one tiny point in the grand scheme of picking a place to call home.

Hi,

I agree, Taxes should only be one reason. If it is the only one, fine for those who feel that way. I on the other hand simply gained additional advantage, tax wise, by moving. The other reasons were not related to taxes. That was a bonus.

I love CA, but no longer enjoy many of the daily living issues. One day I might buy a vacation home near the beach and enjoy it when I want to. This gives me the best of both worlds.

Using the meaningless 3.6% issue, as though that makes any difference in each individuals case, is an example of a lack of valid argumentation. Deal with the good points, bad points and differences and let each make an informed choice. But don't sugar coat CA as though it is the be all and end all of living. It ain't.

[SunnyTXsmile]

Originally Posted by Leonard64

Hi,

I agree, Taxes should only be one reason. If it is the only one, fine for those who feel that way. I on the other hand simply gained additional advantage, tax wise, by moving. The other reasons were not related to taxes. That was a bonus.

I love CA, but no longer enjoy many of the daily living issues. One day I might buy a vacation home near the beach and enjoy it when I want to. This gives me the best of both worlds.

Using the meaningless 3.6% issue, as though that makes any difference in each individuals case, is an example of a lack of valid argumentation. Deal with the good points, bad points and differences and let each make an informed choice. But don't sugar coat CA as though it is the be all and end all of living. It ain't.

I absolutely agree with what you said that's bolded.

For some people, CA is the be all and end all of living. And so what? They found their bliss. Nothing wrong with that. I happen to have many things to feel blissful about, so I wouldn't say any one place is the end all of living, but if others do, more power to them. To each their own.

But to use taxes as the full basis of determining an opinion on something when so many other factors should also be considered is just plain silly.

[oldtrader]

It all comes down to where a person is the most comfortable living. And which area fits their needs. As a 3rd generation (both sides of family) Californian, I have seen California go from what it once was, to what it is today. I chose not to live there any longer, due to the problems in the state.

Lets look at what is important to the middle class families, that are fleeing the state in droves, giving the state a 100,000 per year net out migration. Consider what is important to them, and why they are leaving California.

Some keep posting that California is best, as they pay the highest amount of money. But that is before cost of living, taxes, and and unemployment adjustments are made.

Best States to Make a Living 2012: All 50 states

California is 44th worst state to make a living in for the average person. States that California Cheer Leaders run down, are far better, and that is the real reason the middle class are leaving California in droves. It is not the amount of the check, but how much and what that check will buy in the area you live that is the most important.

The ability of the average person to be able to afford a home, in a nice safe area. Compare the homes market, in your area against other areas of the country.

Home price data on 384 markets - CNNMoney.com

Middle class families, look at the quality of education they can get for their children, and live where they can get a decent education. Another reason they are leaving California to get better education for their children. California is rated way down the list for quality education.

Report Card on American Education | ALEC – American Legislative Exchange Council

Crime and safety considerations. California has the 14th highest violent crime rating in the U.S.

State Rankings--Statistical Abstract of the United States--Violent Crime Rate

People are also considering jobs. California has the second worst unemployment rate in the U.S. When you add in the forced part timers and the underemployed California U6 rate is in serious trouble well over 20%.

California is rated to have the worst business climate in the U.S. The state makes it nearly impossible for may companies to open a plant in California. When a company or a business as simple as a restaurant wants to open a facility in California, it takes 2 years or more to get all the approvals. In other states using just as high standards in what they require takes as little as 2 weeks to two months. An established company wants to expand can take 2 years and a huge pile of money to get approval to expand the operation. Other states, days to do the same thing and small amount of money.

That is why Apple as an example, is putting big facilities in Oregon, Nevada and doubling the facility and number of employees in Texas at a plant to 7,000 people.

It has become so costly and difficult to do business in California one company leaves the state every business day as an average.

Many of those leaving the state, are following those jobs that are leaving.

Those people that are fleeing, see that other states have great scenery as well as California. May be different, but it is good and appeals to them so scenery is not the big draw to keep people in California that some talk about on these threads.

Recreation. Many brag about the free recreation in California. Most Californians do not take advantage of much of it. If you live in Los Angeles you can care less about hiking in the redwoods which are several hundred miles away as an example. All states have recreation, it may be different but keeps locals happy.

It is the other factors mentioned above, that are attractive to families. California used to have a lot of what is now missing, and driving people from the state.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile

I don't see anything wrong with living east of the 100th meridian. I was raised east of the 100th meridian, and I had a fabulous life and many fantastic memories there. If it had warmer winters, it would give CA a run for its money.

Everyone has different priorities. If remaining close to family that lives on the east coast is of priority, well, guess where you are living? In addition to that, there are many things to cherish about the east coast, and many things I miss terribly about the east coast when I'm in CA.

What I have an issue with are those that use taxes as a main reason to knock CA. Taxes are just one tiny point in the grand scheme of picking a place to call home.

Quite right again! Any place with "zero deserts, cacti, J trees..." is fine with us because we don't care for those at all. We live in a place my wife missed and wished to return to ever since having to leave it decades ago and I fell in love with back in the '50s. Taxes were and remain incidental. The fact that they're far lower than the oft mentioned 3.6% is simply a nice, added perc.

Real men are comfortable with being one and don't have to qualify it or make comparisons to shore up their egos.

[SunnyTXsmile]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Quite right again! Any place with "zero deserts, cacti, J trees..." is fine with us because we don't care for those at all. We live in a place my wife missed and wished to return to ever since having to leave it decades ago and I fell in love with back in the '50s. Taxes were and remain incidental. The fact that they're far lower than the oft mentioned 3.6% is simply a nice, added perc.

Real men are comfortable with being one and don't have to qualify it or make comparisons to shore up their egos.

Well, given I'm a woman, I wouldn't begin to try to define what a real man is.

But, I will stand up for my beloved east coast. I'm proud to be from the east coast. I've had many great memories there, and will continue to visit as frequently as possible. Taxes never weighed into that decision either.

[.highnlite]

Real men are comfortable with being one and don't have to qualify it or make comparisons to shore up their egos.

Yep, and you won't find one who once lived west of the 100th meridian living east of the 100th meridian, it would be like spending the rest of their lives locked in the bathroom, depressingly closed in and cloying.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile

Well, given I'm a woman, I wouldn't begin to try to define what a real man is.

But, I will stand up for my beloved east coast. I'm proud to be from the east coast. I've had many great memories there, and will continue to visit as frequently as possible. Taxes never weighed into that decision either.

My roots are from the east coast (VA, NY, MA & CT). Perhaps that's why I prefer green and lush to brown and dry.

[SunnyTXsmile]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

M roots are from the east coast (VA, NY, MA & CT). Perhaps that's why I prefer green and lush to brown and dry.

Luckily, green and lush can be found in most states, so I guess you can have your pick of tax percentages.

Me, my quest is for eternal warmth and sunshine, so I'm much more limited and have fewer tax percentages to pick from. Such is life.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile

Luckily, green and lush can be found in most states, so I guess you can have your pick of tax percentages.

Obviously, that being the case there were other factors that entered into our choice to leave NorCal and head for the Ozarks. As for you, glad you've found the warmth you were seeking.

[SunnyTXsmile]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Obviously, that being the case there were other factors that entered into our choice to leave NorCal and head for the Ozarks. As for you, glad you've found the warmth you were seeking.

Thanks. Don't speak too soon, though; January gets down right cold by my standards. But I can give up 4-6 weeks per year to a "seasonal sneeze", as I like to call it. And the CA government knows it. That's why they keep raising taxes on me. Ah well. That just means less shopping, which never hurt anyone anyway.