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1. Nvidia is one of dozens of billion dollar tech companies in the bay area. They collectively employ way more than hundreds or tens of thousands of well paid white collar workers.
2. Avg incomes in SF/SV is like 70-80k, much higher than the rest of the country. 100k is barely above median now in SF
3. You don't think the success of these tech companies is good for the state's economy and hence tax base? You're telling me that state and local govt's have almost the same tax base regardless of these companies' existence and success?
4. You're probably one of the few who has found a "loophole"; most of the well-paid workers referenced above pay taxes in the state
5. shareholders benefit for sure, but many shareholders aren't necessarily millionaires. Pension funds and the like are huge investors.
6. it's not just tech workers that benefit. I think academics have shown a multiplier effect. Every tech job = 5 jobs in other industries, like construction, healthcare, retail, education, etc. They also create jobs in other very high paying sectors like consulting, law, finance, etc. that pay wages as high if not higher than the tech sector that they support
the fact that the rich are getting much richer from e.g., Nvidia's success doesn't mean it hasn't provided more widespread benefits--even on a lesser per capita scale--to everyone else. Would you prefer that these tech companies all left the state? Do you really think CA would be the same?
1. Nvidia is one of dozens of billion dollar tech companies in the bay area. They collectively employ way more than hundreds or tens of thousands of well paid white collar workers.
NVIDIA employes 7.13k people (fulltime + part time) .. the rest of valley's companies employ similar amnts.
In sum, all of the companies employ a good # in the order of low hundreds of thousands .. california has 38 million people.. See the insignificance? No? California has the highest poverty rate in the U.S and is in debt and struggling to keep a balanced budget even w/ some of the highest tax rates... See the insignificance now? K, on to the next point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
2. Avg incomes in SF/SV is like 70-80k, much higher than the rest of the country. 100k is barely above median now in SF
So what? Taxes easily will eat $10k out of that. Then you have C.O.L. Then comes the federal govt. that doesn't adjust for COL and taxes you more. Then comes actual C.O.L .. 100k is peanuts in SF. Thanks for sharing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
3. You don't think the success of these tech companies is good for the state's economy and hence tax base? You're telling me that state and local govt's have almost the same tax base regardless of these companies' existence and success?
Explain to me how corps like apple,google,fb .. Basically every tech company skirting Calif's taxes and Calif' taxing a couple of tech workers who makes six figures does anything for the 35 million+ other people in Calif. So, what I mean to say is that the tax revenue from taxing tech workers factually and actually does nothing for a state that has the highest poverty rate in the nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
4. You're probably one of the few who has found a "loophole"; most of the well-paid workers referenced above pay taxes in the state
Good for them. LOL. And what about the other 35million+ calif's? You forget about them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
5. shareholders benefit for sure, but many shareholders aren't necessarily millionaires. Pension funds and the like are huge investors.
Funds and the like maintain a large %'age of the shares of various companies.. Many funds are not retirement related.... Shareholders are international in scope .. Many people who invest actually are not poor and have a great deal of capital... you know.. to invest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
6. it's not just tech workers that benefit. I think academics have shown a multiplier effect. Every tech job = 5 jobs in other industries, like construction, healthcare, retail, education, etc. They also create jobs in other very high paying sectors like consulting, law, finance, etc. that pay wages as high if not higher than the tech sector that they support
So, Calif. has this huge tech epicenter .. All the tech companies are breaking new ground.. There is a multiplier effect for jobs.. Yet, Calif has one the highest unemployment rates in the U.S and the highest poverty rate. Obviously the magnitude of the positive impact from this small tech industry in calif. is making a HUGE impact on things in Calif... except, its not
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkup
the fact that the rich are getting much richer from e.g., Nvidia's success doesn't mean it hasn't provided more widespread benefits--even on a lesser per capita scale--to everyone else. Would you prefer that these tech companies all left the state? Do you really think CA would be the same?
The rich are getting far richer ... and the per capita scale to everyone else is far lesser.
I wouldn't prefer anything.. Markets sort themselves out .. As you can already tell, one of calif's best and brightest keeps hundreds of billions stored away outside of Calif :
So, you can cheer on a corp's small R&D expansion for tax writeoffs and subsidies all you want ... Like i said, the lionshare doesn't go to Calif. .. non nvidia workers or common folk .. it goes to people who work there (a very small amnt) and shareholders.
No one likes absurd taxes and that's what Calif. has.. The actions of the very corporations people are ranting and raving about that are in Calif. prove this... Want to rail on someone? Go rail on them.. I didn't make the laws of optimization... and you a quite misinformed if you think corps. and people wont optimize against ridic. tax structures... Part of the reason calif. is broke as a joke and its people impoverished even though all that $$$ is 'flowing' around... and to be quite honest, the only good things calif. has going for it are the weather/geography.. and last I checked tax dollars didn't create it.
California has the highest poverty rate in the U.S
Let's be clear, California does NOT have the highest poverty rate in the US, that honor belongs to Mississippi. California at 13.7% is nothing to sneeze at, but clearly NOT the highest poverty rate in the US.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2
The top article is from Joe Vranich. He is a self described business relocation coach as Presiden of Spectrum Location Services. He wants to help companies to move Joseph Vranich | LinkedIn
No problem there, free country and all. But his statistics are a little suspect.
From your link:
So while the headline says '254 Companies Leave California', it really means '254 California Companies opened offices in other states'
Well I actually emailed the person who wrote that article asking her where I can find the data sources for that article this was her response to me....
Hi *****,
As the story says, the source is Joe Vranich, a consultant who helps companies move (not just out of California). He started compiling a list of company departures about 2009 from news reports, government economic development reports and company announcements. He didn't count companies that open another office for logistical reasons. He counted expansions or moves that could reasonably have been expected to add jobs and economic growth to California.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal2007
Let's be clear, California does NOT have the highest poverty rate in the US, that honor belongs to Mississippi. California at 13.7% is nothing to sneeze at, but clearly NOT the highest poverty rate in the US.
Let's be clear, California does NOT have the highest poverty rate in the US, that honor belongs to Mississippi. California at 13.7% is nothing to sneeze at, but clearly NOT the highest poverty rate in the US.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
What is a rebound? (Back to how it was before???) LOL
Rebound v. re·bound·ed, re·bound·ing, re·bounds v.intr.1. To spring or bounce back after hitting or colliding with something. 2. To recover, as from depression or disappointment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
I think this is the question that should be addressed... IMO places like Texas are just ignoring the fact that unlimited growth is not sustainable.... IMO places like California are trying to to redefine and create a sustainable future....
I don't think Texans are ignoring it. Everyone that I know in Houston and Austin are hating the influx of people. Houston was doing just fine without this influx.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers
Trickle down economics failed... Time to try something new.... As always I am proud of California for at least trying to think outside the box.... Hence the reason it is number 1 in everything... (good and bad)
Yes trickle down economics was dreamed up by and fool and of course it would never work!
Over taxing the higher income folks and businesses is also not working out very well for CA either...definitely time to try something new.
Well I actually emailed the person who wrote that article asking her where I can find the data sources for that article this was her response to me....
Hi *****,
As the story says, the source is Joe Vranich, a consultant who helps companies move (not just out of California). He started compiling a list of company departures about 2009 from news reports, government economic development reports and company announcements. He didn't count companies that open another office for logistical reasons. He counted expansions or moves that could reasonably have been expected to add jobs and economic growth to California.
But in my experience, people who don't want to believe the information won't no matter what evidence you provide.
The point is, Mr. Vranich is the one making the judgement on whether an expansion actually took jobs away and he certainly has motivation to paint as gloomy a picture as he can.
Also, what warrants the headline '254 Companies Leave California' when he is really measuring just expansions in other states? When Dell opened their Santa Clara office in 2011 with 1500 jobs, I didn't hear anyone say "Dell Leaves Texas for California".
The point is, Mr. Vranich is the one making the judgement on whether an expansion actually took jobs away and he certainly has motivation to paint as gloomy a picture as he can.
Also, what warrants the headline '254 Companies Leave California' when he is really measuring just expansions in other states? When Dell opened their Santa Clara office in 2011 with 1500 jobs, I didn't hear anyone say "Dell Leaves Texas for California".
Dell is also circling the drain and just got bought out and is going private.
Doesn't mean much in my mind and can't recall the last time I touched their products.
The reason for the crappy state of their business has little to do w/ the nerds they hired in Santa Clara and everything to do w/ the myopic business leaders running the company. Good luck to them.
Likewise, Apple has seen a huge fall from greatness in which tens of billions of dollars of their market cap has been wiped away...
Can't remember the last time they did something that wow'd me either.
Take away : In a dynamic world, one shouldn't subscribe to things staying the same. Yet, that's exactly what many are presenting w.r.t to the tiny economic engine in the valley compared to the vast amnt of poverty elsewhere in Calif. Tech is all over the place innovating everywhere. The U.S used to be the leader in almost everything .. it's not anymore. Things change.
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2
The point is, Mr. Vranich is the one making the judgement on whether an expansion actually took jobs away and he certainly has motivation to paint as gloomy a picture as he can.
Also, what warrants the headline '254 Companies Leave California' when he is really measuring just expansions in other states? When Dell opened their Santa Clara office in 2011 with 1500 jobs, I didn't hear anyone say "Dell Leaves Texas for California".
What do you think his motivation is?
However my understanding was he counted the companies that moved their HQ's as well as the entire company out of CA.
Of course you would not hear that Dell has left TX for CA Dell only expaned and opened a research center in SV. That is not the same as moving its HQ or entire company.
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