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You mean even though we digressed just enuff to make your point...
BTW, if one wished to "confine" the definition of anything, the concept of something as expansive as non-duality seems the most unlikely one to choose (and the most ironic)!
But you can quibble with these guys, among others, if you wish...
Science and Nonduality: About: Nonduality
"Nonduality is the philosophical, spiritual, and scientific understanding of non-separation and fundamental intrinsic oneness."
Which to me means, seeking the Divine, Higher Consciousness, the Dharma, God, our Evolution, whatever... via technology and exploring the outer universe, or else via inner work, "navel-gazing" and empiricism... regardless, it's all good and they're all viable paths to essentially the same ''oneness'' and ''place''.
Although my ''religion'' does take PayPal!
First of all, MY point is the only one worth making, naturally ...
Secondly, increasing complexity -- particularly beyond the ability for any individual to grasp the component parts and functions -- is not any path to "oneness" ...
Third, there is no god ...
Fourth, the "new economy" is just another version of the same old consumerism that is unsustainable physically and ultimately unfulfilling, as well.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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No offense Null, but all that seems strangely at odds with someone who goes out of their way to quibble about metaphysical notions like "non-duality", let alone whose entire alternative lifestyle wouldn't exist were it not for technology or mass consumerism (complex or otherwise).
Well, I think Null lives as close to the mountaintop as possible while still having some modicum of comfort as provided by current technology. The sea in a boat for part of the year seems like a good compromise to me.
No offense Null, but all that seems strangely at odds with someone who goes out of their way to quibble about metaphysical notions like "non-duality", let alone whose entire alternative lifestyle wouldn't exist were it not for technology or mass consumerism (complex or otherwise).
No offense taken in the slightest. I enjoy your conversations and points of view ... mostly we agree. I don't understand what you are getting at here though. My lifestyle is minimalist to an extreme -- in which I remain just within the fringes of contemporary culture ... I have friends and family in Contemporania.
You do realize I don't even have bathrooms or kitchens, right? Yet I do use washing machines and hot water showers and camping cookware, etc. I have a computer obviously, but no tee-vee. I have a cell phone now too. I use these limited modern technologies to be in touch with personal life as it presents itself in the 21st century -- and to contribute support to certain folks who live with disadvantages in our society.
And, last I looked, I still wear basic clothing in public
No offense taken in the slightest. I enjoy your conversations and points of view ... mostly we agree. I don't understand what you are getting at here though. My lifestyle is minimalist to an extreme -- in which I remain just within the fringes of contemporary culture ... I have friends and family in Contemporania.
You do realize I don't even have bathrooms or kitchens, right? Yet I do use washing machines and hot water showers and camping cookware, etc. I have a computer obviously, but no tee-vee. I have a cell phone now too. I use these limited modern technologies to be in touch with personal life as it presents itself in the 21st century -- and to contribute support to certain folks who live with disadvantages in our society.
And, last I looked, I still wear basic clothing in public
Nully, you've taken what I do to another level. I have a bit more but don't feel the need to own property. This way I can move about as I please. I have no children so nothing to leave behind. I need my computer for music production. I got a cell phone for the first time in 2008 haha. My way of living puts me at odds with most people so I can only imagine what you must deal with.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,456,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
No offense taken in the slightest. I enjoy your conversations and points of view ... mostly we agree. I don't understand what you are getting at here though. My lifestyle is minimalist to an extreme -- in which I remain just within the fringes of contemporary culture ... I have friends and family in Contemporania.
You do realize I don't even have bathrooms or kitchens, right? Yet I do use washing machines and hot water showers and camping cookware, etc. I have a computer obviously, but no tee-vee. I have a cell phone now too. I use these limited modern technologies to be in touch with personal life as it presents itself in the 21st century -- and to contribute support to certain folks who live with disadvantages in our society.
And, last I looked, I still wear basic clothing in public
Understood, and you are remarkably minimalist, even more than I realized. Still, being retired myself, I know there are a lot of things I also take for granted now, that are all basically modern inventions, mostly available thru belonging to an affluent, reasonably well-managed and consumer-based culture (whether I agree with all of it or not). Like having healthcare, real estate and legally sound investments and a guaranteed pension (including what it took to earn them).
And for example, imagine trying to enjoy your own lifestyle & mobility, but without your current ease & security of financial management, communication, shipping, food, reliability, entertainment, etc.... all provided by cheap, ubiquitous gadgets and worldwide tech, made possible by mass-production and consumption! In fact IMHO, finding a viable economic alternative to the current system of consumer-based capitalism is one of the growing dilemmas of our age! Easy to complain about, but practical alternative models still seem in pretty short supply!
Though I mostly lean towards Stewart Brand's belief that we can solve a lot of our problems with the same technology that's causing them... if we take collective responsibility and we have the will. Or as he says these days, ''we are as gods, and we have to get good at it!''
Nully, you've taken what I do to another level. I have a bit more but don't feel the need to own property. This way I can move about as I please. I have no children so nothing to leave behind. I need my computer for music production. I got a cell phone for the first time in 2008 haha. My way of living puts me at odds with most people so I can only imagine what you must deal with.
Well, sorta? I actually own multiple properties -- including some "stuff". I just no longer personally live with or interact with hardly any "stuff". Got houses (I rent out) with appliances and bathrooms and kitchens, etc. Have a shop with a fair selection of tools which I used to build the properties, etc. I had a life of self-employment, raising family, and all that goes with -- sorta. It simply never fit me real well so I returned to those lessons of my youth gained from months' long camping adventures living across the continent.
Hats off to Mom and Dad for making an adventure out of washing my clothes and myself in mountain streams, cooking over open fires and campstoves, living in tents, under rain-flys and in jungle hammocks, hiking mountain trails, canoeing rivers and lakes, sailing on the ocean ... on and on ... it was never a burden or struggle for us ... always a fun challenge with a nice finish around a campfire and a solid night's sleep, spiced by the hoots of owls, cries of the coyotes, mysterious rustling noises to spark the imagination. By the time I was 14 I had experienced 43 states and about 5 Canadian Provinces like that ... then I left home on my own adventures ... then military ... then family and professional life. Now I'm back on the camping trails until I can't walk and drive -- at which time I plan to sail over the horizon one last time with some good dope and a can of gas and a match.
Nah, I'm not at odds with anybody anymore -- except whiners on C-D Forum My family loves me and admires my lifestyle. My three boys all wait for the day they can follow ... my daughter, not so much ... she loves to curl up with her books in her comfy bed in the home she has lived almost continuously in since she was two and a half.
Well, sorta? I actually own multiple properties -- including some "stuff". I just no longer personally live with or interact with hardly any "stuff". Got houses (I rent out) with appliances and bathrooms and kitchens, etc. Have a shop with a fair selection of tools which I used to build the properties, etc. I had a life of self-employment, raising family, and all that goes with -- sorta. It simply never fit me real well so I returned to those lessons of my youth gained from months' long camping adventures living across the continent.
Hats off to Mom and Dad for making an adventure out of washing my clothes and myself in mountain streams, cooking over open fires and campstoves, living in tents, under rain-flys and in jungle hammocks, hiking mountain trails, canoeing rivers and lakes, sailing on the ocean ... on and on ... it was never a burden or struggle for us ... always a fun challenge with a nice finish around a campfire and a solid night's sleep, spiced by the hoots of owls, cries of the coyotes, mysterious rustling noises to spark the imagination. By the time I was 14 I had experienced 43 states and about 5 Canadian Provinces like that ... then I left home on my own adventures ... then military ... then family and professional life. Now I'm back on the camping trails until I can't walk and drive -- at which time I plan to sail over the horizon one last time with some good dope and a can of gas and a match.
Nah, I'm not at odds with anybody anymore -- except whiners on C-D Forum My family loves me and admires my lifestyle. My three boys all wait for the day they can follow ... my daughter, not so much ... she loves to curl up with her books in her comfy bed in the home she has lived almost continuously in since she was two and a half.
haha I don't mean at odds like fighting (except for stupid exes haha) just more along the lines of people saying "You intrigue me" LOL
Understood, and you are remarkably minimalist, even more than I realized. Still, being retired myself, I know there are a lot of things I also take for granted now, that are all basically modern inventions, mostly available thru belonging to an affluent, reasonably well-managed and consumer-based culture (whether I agree with all of it or not). Like having healthcare, real estate and legally sound investments and a guaranteed pension (including what it took to earn them).
And for example, imagine trying to enjoy your own lifestyle & mobility, but without your current ease & security of financial management, communication, shipping, food, reliability, entertainment, etc.... all provided by cheap, ubiquitous gadgets and worldwide tech, made possible by mass-production and consumption! In fact IMHO, finding a viable economic alternative to the current system of consumer-based capitalism is one of the growing dilemmas of our age! Easy to complain about, but practical alternative models still seem in pretty short supply!
Though I mostly lean towards Stewart Brand's belief that we can solve a lot of our problems with the same technology that's causing them... if we take collective responsibility and we have the will. Or as he says these days, ''we are as gods, and we have to get good at it!''
Sure I understand how connected I am to the modern world. But I haven't chosen that. It chose me. Here I am in the middle of it. I would prefer to live in a shepard's wagon pulled by a couple of mules. I don't really have that option, do I? The "cheap, ubiquitous gadgets and worldwide tech, made possible by mass-production and consumption" don't enhance my world. They are ultimately unsustainable physically for the world, and entirely distracting from essential qualities of life. Our entire existence as Homo-sapiens on earth has been tied to growth through consumerism. I can't quote Edward Abbey enough: "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." It will kill us. It is killing us now, in every respect.
I do not agree with Stewart Brand's assessment of our potential. If we were capable of "solving problems with the same technology that's causing them" we would recognize the pointlessness of the technologies to begin with and not cause the confusion and dust.
None of us is here for very long in this form we take. And then we drop our bodies. So how do we spend this extra time we magnificently create for ourselves? Slaving away, employed by our obsessions and possessions, driving our kids to do the same. We don't live any longer than we did as cave people. They lived about 36 years or so of intense engagement with reality every second. We live 78 engaged in fantasy and angst over the 1% or 2% difference in taxes from one state to another, how our dress or home compares with the benchmarks of others, our career standings, our educational attainment, how clean our gutters are, how many cars in the garage -- and how to pay for all this "stuff".
That's not living.
Remember: the more you have -- the more you have to protect and pay for and take care of.
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