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Old 06-07-2013, 08:30 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,769,038 times
Reputation: 3806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Semmler View Post
I suppose, being a consistent sort of fellow, that you held those sentiments 6,7,8 years ago.

I have always thought it curious that under President Bush, the Federal Government increased in size and power to invade privacy of citizens more than under any President since perhaps Lincoln, yet, not a peep from the right side of the aisle.

It seems to be clear that corporations have an undue influence over our government. Far more influence and power than Joe Citizen. That Government of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation" does not bother the right side of the aisle, and indeed is supported by those calling themselves Patriots, is truly frightening.
An example of your ability to contribute positively to the forum. Nice post.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:44 AM
zdg
 
Location: Sonoma County
841 posts, read 1,702,549 times
Reputation: 1123
Quote:
I think it is simply wrong of the government to routinely and easily learn that much about what its residents do with their telephones.
This question is for anyone, not just the person I quoted:

Why? What exactly do you think will happen and why are you so terrified of it?
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:54 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,769,038 times
Reputation: 3806
Ever notice in a hockey fight the referees never grab one side in the dust up until they can control both? Entirely similar scenario here. The private sector has all the data that can be used however money or hacking desires. But the big, bad government isn't allowed?

Result? The uncontrolled party gets to wail on the restricted one.

No, folks, you (we, all) opened the Box ... too late now ...
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:10 AM
 
11,092 posts, read 10,130,269 times
Reputation: 20485
I'm not a fan of too much government intervention but, in this case, I have no problem with the government having access to phone records and the ability to monitor communications. Nothing in my life is worth listening in on. Pretty boring, actually.

However, if it weren't for them having that access, they might not have been able to thwart that attempted bombing in NY a couple of years ago. It was because they were able to access telephone and emails, linked to al qaeda, that kept thousands of people from dying.

If anyone can find a better way to keep tabs on terrorist activity, please speak up.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:01 PM
 
25,631 posts, read 30,301,223 times
Reputation: 23111
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornhuskerRed View Post
That's awful kind of you to greet the new poster like that. Right friendly around here.

Dat only cause you in agreesment cuz.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:51 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
330 posts, read 647,856 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Semmler View Post
I suppose, being a consistent sort of fellow, that you held those sentiments 6,7,8 years ago.

I have always thought it curious that under President Bush, the Federal Government increased in size and power to invade privacy of citizens more than under any President since perhaps Lincoln, yet, not a peep from the right side of the aisle.

It seems to be clear that corporations have an undue influence over our government. Far more influence and power than Joe Citizen. That Government of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation" does not bother the right side of the aisle, and indeed is supported by those calling themselves Patriots, is truly frightening.
Ohh, give it a rest. This post was not even directed at me, but as an independent its just so irritating to read I feel the need to respond. If I see another reference to Bush-era GOP policies used to excuse actions taken by the Obama Administration, I might just throw up.

Let's just get this out of the way: Republicans are hypocrites.

Okay, now that we can agree on that, lets move on: do you care to defend this invasion of privacy by the Obama administration? Do you care to defend DOJ monitoring of the Associated Press? Are these things not worthy of outrage?
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:57 PM
 
25,950 posts, read 28,344,509 times
Reputation: 24594
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
It is funny (yeah, haha funny) that all this money is being spent and all these assaults on our personal freedoms are being perpetrated in the name of "keeping us safe" from a threat that kills so few -- compared to, oh say, tobacco, booze, fast-food lifestyle, toxic additives to food and other consumables, unnecessary medical procedures, poor medical oversight and management in hospitals ........... etc. all of which murder and maim and cripple at rates in the hundreds of thousands of Americans per year ... yet which industries are protected by government and law.
I'm with you on this one. Most of the unsafe things that go on are mundane in nature and are often things we do to ourselves. Terrorism is a small threat compared to these things. But increased monitoring of everything we do continues in the name of "security" just as George Orwell tried to warn us it would back in the 1940s.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:00 PM
 
25,950 posts, read 28,344,509 times
Reputation: 24594
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I think it is simply wrong of the government to routinely and easily learn that much about what its residents do with their telephones. It is not garden variety data mining when the FBI and NSA do it.
Agreed. And honestly, I have a problem with this data mining regardless of whether private companies or the government is doing it. We are being conditioned to accept living in a prison-like environment as normal, natural, and inevitable.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:23 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
77,875 posts, read 69,839,114 times
Reputation: 75627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
I can't really remember the Exxon Holocaust or Khmer Rouge brought to us by Monsanto, can you? This of course ignores the fact that corporations cannot even exist in the absence of government. Due to this fact corporations are ultimately accountable to someone (shareholders, the government, their lenders etc.). Governments can force their will upon us without asking anyone for permission.
That's very naive to think that corporations are accountable to their shareholders. Anyone who's attended shareholder meetings and tried to exercise some control or bring about some accountability among the worst-offending corporations knows how orchestrated those shareholder meetings are. It's like saying that neighborhood caucuses are democratic. Most are not. Get a clue.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,451,781 times
Reputation: 9216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That's very naive to think that corporations are accountable to their shareholders. Anyone who's attended shareholder meetings and tried to exercise some control or bring about some accountability among the worst-offending corporations knows how orchestrated those shareholder meetings are. It's like saying that neighborhood caucuses are democratic. Most are not. Get a clue.
It is also naive to think the government will use data only for the purposes they claim.

The NSA and FBI know who we have called for the last seven years. I don't commit crimes. But what if I unknowingly ordered pizza regularly from someone who is a criminal or whose son is a terrorist-wanna-be?

I do not trust that the interpretation of this data is correct, nor that it will only be used for the purposes we were told.

I just don't agree with the approach of "lets scoop up a ridiculous amount of data and poke around in it. Maybe someone is doing something illegal."
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