U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-13-2013, 08:37 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,771,107 times
Reputation: 3806

Advertisements

For those readers interested in California's continuing, leading edge commitment to a more sustainable future:
California Looks To Its Clean Energy Future | EarthTechling

What I notice still absent, however, is an equal focus on reducing energy use, through conservation and elimination of unnecessary burdens to go along with the development of new, renewable sources of power. Tch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-13-2013, 10:27 AM
 
402 posts, read 1,275,146 times
Reputation: 341
Since nobody's responded and I take it you're calling for discussion on the issue, I'll take a stab at it. But just as an interested observer from afar.

What are those "unnecessary burdens"?

And some purely practical questions about the conservation end of it - which anticipates that people are in the foreseeable future going to be asked to consume less energy (and by energy I mean electrical energy - I'm assuming that non-renewable sources, fossil fuels in other words, like natural gas, oil and coal will be banned).

So, let's assume that is what is asked of everyone. OK. You ask politely first, right? Don't use more than xyz kilowatts of A/C or heat, or drive your electric cars more than, what, 50 miles? Because it's draining the old electric grid. Well, what are you going to do about non-compliance?

Do the "requests" then become more demanding?

And when it comes to it, do you support the logical end game of rationing of each individual citizen's electric power usage? Seems like ultimately that's the only way. Which presupposes monitoring of each "unit", or home and family. And what happens if someone exceeds their rationed share? Do they get a bill in the mail? Or, does the monitoring equipment on the home or apartment automatically kick into shutdown sequence? Or does the electric car have a device to limit the energy and therefore the speed or distance it can be driven? Or does the electric car just get towed period and you get a pass to ride the public transit.

Conceptually, how would you go about it? Because it's best to think these practical kinds of questions through on the front end, don't you agree?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,661,426 times
Reputation: 16825
Make me your dictator and I'll stick so many nuke plants around this state, you'll think you're in Hiroshima and Nagasaki back in August of 1945.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 11:30 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,771,107 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginsaw View Post
Since nobody's responded and I take it you're calling for discussion on the issue, I'll take a stab at it. But just as an interested observer from afar.

What are those "unnecessary burdens"?

And some purely practical questions about the conservation end of it - which anticipates that people are in the foreseeable future going to be asked to consume less energy (and by energy I mean electrical energy - I'm assuming that non-renewable sources, fossil fuels in other words, like natural gas, oil and coal will be banned).

So, let's assume that is what is asked of everyone. OK. You ask politely first, right? Don't use more than xyz kilowatts of A/C or heat, or drive your electric cars more than, what, 50 miles? Because it's draining the old electric grid. Well, what are you going to do about non-compliance?

Do the "requests" then become more demanding?

And when it comes to it, do you support the logical end game of rationing of each individual citizen's electric power usage? Seems like ultimately that's the only way. Which presupposes monitoring of each "unit", or home and family. And what happens if someone exceeds their rationed share? Do they get a bill in the mail? Or, does the monitoring equipment on the home or apartment automatically kick into shutdown sequence? Or does the electric car have a device to limit the energy and therefore the speed or distance it can be driven? Or does the electric car just get towed period and you get a pass to ride the public transit.

Conceptually, how would you go about it? Because it's best to think these practical kinds of questions through on the front end, don't you agree?
Good post and points. The fact is that we all waste energy as if it were rainwater runoff in Seattle in winter. Phantom, or 'Vampire', energy drains from a seemingly infinite variety of LED lights and sleeping 'standby modes' alone are estimated to use up to 15 watts when not in use, and:
Quote:
The average Canadian and US home is said to leak at least 50 Watts of electricity continually, about 450 kilowatt hours per year.
This is but one example of waste that needs to be addressed ... and is in some places ... policies are being proposed and implemented to reduce standby mode power consumption to 1 watt.

The profligate use of power is not just in the nature of appliances though ... it is in our very cultural expectations. Forced regulation of use, while ultimately necessary, will never match the potential for re-education of need. That said, I don't have any great expectations that human nature will ever become sensible.

I don't have any manifesto for a new energy management system. I am merely remarking on the need for conservation to be taken at least as seriously as developing new sources. People have a habit of thinking they need to add rooms to their homes, rather than simplify their lives and possessions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 11:32 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,771,107 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
Make me your dictator and I'll stick so many nuke plants around this state, you'll think you're in Hiroshima and Nagasaki back in August of 1945.
If I made you dictator, I'd also have to overthrow you ... as revolution is the truth of renewal.

What say we skip the middle man and just go for a beer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 12:03 PM
 
402 posts, read 1,275,146 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
What say we skip the middle man and just go for a beer.
Hey, we could probably sandwich some nukes in between the impeachment proceedings...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,661,426 times
Reputation: 16825
You don't impeach a dictator. You'll have to take me out, and I don't mean on a date.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 12:39 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,771,107 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
You don't impeach a dictator. You'll have to take me out, and I don't mean on a date.
Yeah, I know. That's what I'm talking about ... taking you out ... for a beer ... it's not a date ... it's a set up. Meanwhile, we need to stop being so wasteful with our energy ... like sitting around on the internet. I've been killing time and watts all morning and now my lunch date with a raft of attorneys is here. Tied up for the afternoon with the world's most stimulating profession. If we could harness their bullshirt we could power the state at any level of usage. Toodles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 03:58 PM
 
402 posts, read 1,275,146 times
Reputation: 341
"raft of attorneys" - is that what a bunch of 'um is supposed to be called??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-13-2013, 06:39 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,057,077 times
Reputation: 10905
I'm not looking forward to the steadily increasing drain on my cash flow thanks to PG&E and AB-32.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top