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Old 07-21-2013, 04:40 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,625,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Actually, it may have improved social security, it all comes down to how effective the cuts were at stimulating economic activity. If the cuts were very effective, they they would not only have boosted pay rolls during the cuts but they will also boost pay rolls for years to come. The idea, with stimulus like this, is to push up the demand curve and once done it becomes the new equilibrium.

But my point was merely to point out that reducing the taxes on your average tax payer is more stimulating than reducing, especially income/corporate, taxes on businesses....so the other posters focus was in the wrong place.
Well employment has not yet reached the pre-collapse level, so the cuts damaged Social Security and it doesn't appear that it really made mush differcence to job growth. IF they wanted to stimulate it why not cut payroll taxes instead of Social Security? Same effect and they don't seem to care about running up a deficite there as opposed to Social Security.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Carmichael, CA
2,009 posts, read 3,016,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
When did we discover that? If this were true, why have a private sector at all?
DMV is already doing that, as most of the vehicle transfers are now done by private companies. So instead of paying $15 to the car dealership for the evil DMV to process it, you now pay up to $85 to the car dealership to have a private company process it (and still pay the $15 to DMV for the title.)

So that's better, right?
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:46 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,482,868 times
Reputation: 29071
Now back to the issue of pensions and pensioners, changes have to be made but under existing law, they have to be made going forward. The constant "rivalries" between the public sector and the private sector are useless as the decision to be employed in one or the other is strictly personal. If the citizens don't like the way the state has handled things they need to become informed and clean house in the Legislature. That might take some actual effort so it won't likely happen. Until it does, if ever, the government will continue to belong to the unions.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:47 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,625,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
As opposed to rabid capitalism which makes a very few people filthy rich and powerful -- and everyone else miserable beggars ...
Rabid Capitalism is as bad as rabid Socialism.

We haven't had rabid Capitalism since the early years of this Country up to the end of the 1900's. We are having what is closer to rabid Socialism in CA though, and how many on welfare and how many looking for work and how many slipping out of the Middle class and .. it doesn't hurt the Rich, many of whom are Socialists. It is called Progressive Socialism and is as bad as anything Conservatism has done and not necessarily doing as much good.

Who built the first Universities in this Country Who paid for wings of Hospitals for a very long time, who employees people and makes it possible for goods to be made, moved and utilized? While there are bad Capitalists, they still provide jobs with potential for growth and Socialism stifles jobs. Conservatism with Socialism as a component works far better than Socialism as the dominate theology. How are all the Countries that were/are pure Socialists or significantly more Socialists than Capitalist doing?
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:00 PM
zdg
 
Location: Sonoma County
841 posts, read 1,707,704 times
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I seriously doubt any of us here that are pro big government are actually advocating Marxist-Lenin Socialism, so asking us how Laos is doing in comparison to Germany is a little silly.

Or were you referring more to Western European "Socialism"?
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,482,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Now back to the issue of pensions and pensioners, changes have to be made but under existing law, they have to be made going forward. The constant "rivalries" between the public sector and the private sector are useless as the decision to be employed in one or the other is strictly personal. If the citizens don't like the way the state has handled things they need to become informed and clean house in the Legislature. That might take some actual effort so it won't likely happen. Until it does, if ever, the government will continue to belong to the unions.
Guess that went over their heads. Probably time to close the thread.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:54 PM
 
1,614 posts, read 1,748,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Firstly, the comment you responded to wasn't about "outsourcing" in particular but the public vs private sector in general and yet you're claiming I'm misconstruing matters to state my opinion. Which is a bit bizarre as I have no difficultly simply stating my opinion outright.

In any case, and more importantly, any sort of blanket claim about outsourcing is problematic. Some activities are better left to the private sector than others, one would need to evaluate matters on a case by case basis.
Maybe the comment I responded to - but you weren't responding to that, you were responding to my comment, and as a result, your response didn't really address my response. Phew.

Case by case, sure - but I rarely here people make such a cautious statement when they refer to inefficient government.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:20 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,801,998 times
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Guess that went over their heads. Probably time to close the thread.
Well Chief, you know how hard it is to resist user's magnetic personality ...
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:38 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,801,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Rabid Capitalism is as bad as rabid Socialism.

We haven't had rabid Capitalism since the early years of this Country up to the end of the 1900's. We are having what is closer to rabid Socialism in CA though, and how many on welfare and how many looking for work and how many slipping out of the Middle class and .. it doesn't hurt the Rich, many of whom are Socialists. It is called Progressive Socialism and is as bad as anything Conservatism has done and not necessarily doing as much good.

Who built the first Universities in this Country Who paid for wings of Hospitals for a very long time, who employees people and makes it possible for goods to be made, moved and utilized? While there are bad Capitalists, they still provide jobs with potential for growth and Socialism stifles jobs. Conservatism with Socialism as a component works far better than Socialism as the dominate theology. How are all the Countries that were/are pure Socialists or significantly more Socialists than Capitalist doing?
Ex, you're rambling without foundation. Homo sapiens are social animals ... socialism is an extensional abstraction of a natural structure for humans.

Capitalism is a cancerous growth rooted in a very very small percentage of rogue humanity. It is a system based on self-interest of individuals which is symptomatic of sociopathy. Sociopathy occurs in just a few percent of the general population -- but is found in very high percentages of corporate management and ownership. They are developing and perpetuating sociopathic conditioning for the general population. Supporting studies are easily found and denials are absent. All those "benefits" of capitalism you cite exist apart from capitalism: hospital wings, universities, employment ... where on earth do you get the notion that those are exclusively products of capitalism?

Jobs provided by capitalism occur without regard to the value of the products and services produced. What good, for instance, comes of a career in the tobacco industry? People work and get paid for poisoning and killing others, including addicting youth. But that's okay because they have a job?

What a person does -- and gets paid for -- has to have value for individual and species alike.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:24 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,801,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Nonsense. Typical straw man arguments.

That CA may have the lowest is no reason to keep people employed if their job is unneeded or unnecessary. Why should Gov't employees gain immunity from being terminated when they are unneeded or unnecessary?

What the rich may do still has nothing to do with keeping unneeded and unnecessary employees on the payroll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
And just to point out, due to so called "economies of scale", larger states can often get away with smaller public work forces as a percent of the total population.
Nonsense yourselves. There's no straw man here. While I completely agree that there is no reason to keep people employed if their job is unnecessary, you haven't shown that to be the case. You are posing a theoretical question without the slightest data or proof to conform the case to the theory. Sporty posted a long list of agencies and said at least 1/3 could be eliminated. He was challenged on which should go. He has not answered ... and neither has anyone else specified ... and if anyone wants to take a stab at proposing which services should go, they need to back up with some data on how many are employed in the designated cuts, and why the agency has no value. Proof. And finding pointless, valueless agencies with offices of only a handful of workers is meaningless. Find some agencies with significant numbers that can be axed. Let us know.

As to economies of scale, yes there's some truth to the notion that larger systems can be run more efficiently per capita ... but that doesn't account for the degree of efficiency that California runs on ... California has a full 25% fewer public employees to population ratio than the national state average. That is a huge variation. When the numbers are examined for all states you'll find them all over the map. Including some very small population states also being very efficient. Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan all have very low ratios.
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