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Old 07-21-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: So Ca
15,516 posts, read 14,824,606 times
Reputation: 13435

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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
You must be new to the area. In the past, that is 15+ years ago, a middle-class family could easily afford a home in a decent community within Los Angeles.
Um, I've lived here since 1960. A middle class family could not "easily" afford a home in a decent area of L.A. with good public schools 15 or even 25 years ago. Maybe you have a different definition of middle class than I do.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:09 PM
 
17,365 posts, read 10,452,595 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
I think the theological place of eternal punishment just froze over. I actually agree with everything nullgeo just wrote.
Oh great, I prefer heat to cold.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:11 PM
 
17,365 posts, read 10,452,595 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
If 10 million people left California then its population would be just about the right size.
True, but taxes will never go down so the ones left will pay much higher taxes.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,393,193 times
Reputation: 4309
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Um, I've lived here since 1960. A middle class family could not "easily" afford a home in a decent area of L.A. with good public schools 15 or even 25 years ago. Maybe you have a different definition of middle class than I do.
Well, this depends on your definition of "good public schools", these days there aren't many "good public schools" left in LA. But in any case, there were many communities that a middle-class family could easily afford a decent home in within LA 15~20 years ago. For example, woodland hills and northridge.

I recall someone I knew buying a condo in Northridge for around $75k in 1996 or so, today that condo would be around $250,000,more than two times more than the inflation adjusted price.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:18 PM
 
17,365 posts, read 10,452,595 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
You must be new to the area, it was different just 15~20 years ago and very different 40+ years ago. In the past, that is 15+ years ago, a middle-class family could easily afford a home in a decent community within Los Angeles.

As for as "few people", that wasn't true of the past. My parents, and the same can be said of their friends, purchased their first home in their early 20's on a single income (nothing fancy) within LA. Today, the very home they purchased, is totally out of reach for a single income family headed by someone with the same job.
One of the single biggest differences between now and when I was a kid, is it in the vast majority of cases it took ONE parent to make a decent living and the Mom's were home. I know as they all smacked me if I was out of line. Didn't bother to tell my mom or dad, just took care of it, and I thank them for that now.

Now it takes both Parents to come close to it and kids are farmed out to day care or just let run free. My Dad working could and did buy us a nice home at what would be comparable to nice homes now. Today he would not make enough in his chosen profession to pay for the the house, the taxes on his earnings and so much else the State now levies high taxes on, like car registration, Gas, etc as he would not lave enough after tax income. Inflation, driven for the most by Gov't policies and taxes, though not entirely in Coastal So Cal, have driven the middle class to the level of the poor then. Both must work to make even close to a decent living in CA now.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:14 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,759,209 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Well gee, someone that doesn't even live in the state says there is no brain drain so it must be true.
Living in the state is not a requirement for staying abreast of current events in business and educational trends. That said, I live at will along the entire contiguous Pacific coast of the U.S. for the past 15 years -- including maintaining and using permanent addresses in three states (including CA). As you have stated in past threads that you are not even mid-30's, that means I have been addressed in CA longer than you have been an adult. Additionally, I lived in Bay area, central valley, and southern California in the 60's / early 70's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
If you research the topic, you'll find that there is a small but growing brain drain in California. Also, the "brain drain" isn't the only issue, there is the issue of the brains not coming from other states as well and that is, at the moment, the bigger issue.
Actually, if you research it, you'll find credible arguments for both sides of the opinion. Here's one study that says "no":
No 'Brain Drain' for California, Report Finds | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com

And the real measure of a "brain drain" is whether those leaving leave a hole unfilled ... in California, there are no unfilled holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
If 10 million people left California, it would become the biggest economic disaster seen in any US state.
If 10 million left there would still be about 10 million too damn many.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,393,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Actually, if you research it, you'll find credible arguments for both sides of the opinion. Here's one study that says "no".
When you search for what you wish to believe, you can find just about anything on the internet. And like I said, I don't think there is any sort of critical mass of "brain drain" in California yet instead that there are growing signs that this is starting to occur. The fact that you see articles trying to counter this idea, is evidence that such signs existence....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
And the real measure of a "brain drain" is whether those leaving leave a hole unfilled ... in California, there are no unfilled holes.
Really? And how did you determine this?

Obviously living in the state decades ago, doesn't inform you about what is going on in the state today. Also, as you like to spitefully repeat, you don't even come into the major metro areas. You're not going to get a sense of what is happening in California's economy while visiting the national parks. Also, as I pointed out, a "brain drain" isn't the only issue. California has benefited for decades from brains coming into the state, but that trend has reversed.

In any case, California is a pretty brutal place for Millennials. I'm thankful that I got to grow up in small city in California around farms, open space, had the opportunity to get a first rate college education at an affordable price, etc. But.....everything is different now. Personally, I regret my choice to move back to California 5~6 years ago.....and I was living in the rust belt prior to the move! Yes, at this point I'd rather live in the rust belt than...sunny California.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:37 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,759,209 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Not going to discuss this here, but did want to point out the obvious, humans do all sorts of things that they are not "structured biologically" to do. For example, use the internet, hunt, fish, ride boats, etc......but I reckon you're not going to given those things up anytime soon.
You are wise to "not discuss this here", because you are making one erroneous statement after another in regard to the subject. Humans are perfectly well structured biologically to hunt and fish ... they evolved doing those things ... obviously. They are also perfectly well able to go sailing in boats. What they are not well suited to do is: cooperate with each other -- UNLESS they use their reasoning brains to compensate for violating their Dunbar Number. This is what we are not doing sufficiently ... in considerable part because we keep insisting that gadgetry with flashing lights and whirring, popping noises will reduce our workloads and increase our pleasures and allow us to be healthy beings -- emotionally, mentally, and physically -- without being engaged in our natural environments and life functions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
You're missing the point, taxes, inflation and the deficit are mechanism for transfering wealth in the modern economy. Looking at these three things, among some others, will tell you how wealth is being pushed around in the economy.

Also, inflation is by no means a "necessary component" of modern economic theory. It is,like the others, a mechanism to transfer wealth.
Taxes have existed since before the pyramids of Egypt. Inflation IS absolutely a necessary component of our economic system ... it is managed by the Fed with a goal of increasing at roughly 2% a year ... it is how credit is demanded in the economy, which is how new money is created, without which we collapse. Our entire monetary system is built on having more debt than money. Inflation is required. And the deficit is part of this illusory, sick pageant sponsored by the uberwealthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
As for the boomers, obviously I disagree, though I don't think the boomers collectively planned what happened. Instead it was a confluence of events, but their materialism and short-sighted destruction of traditional culture did play a big role. In a real sense, the Millennials future is being stripped away by the boomers....and that is because there is currently numerous transfers of wealth set-up from the Millennials to the boomers. The Millennials are going to find it very difficult, and the numbers already show it, to match the standard of living that the boomers had and given productivity increases the opposite should occur. Essentially, the boomers are "stealing" the productivity increases and even dipping further into their pockets to support their lifestyle.

And the boomers certainly have wealth, the median net worth of those between 55~64 is around $180,000 and this doesn't include social security, medicare and pensions.
"Boomer materialism"?! Sweet jesus, man! The world has never before seen the materialism of the Gen-Xer's and Millenials! Holy crap! What a statement!

For the last time: The Boomers aren't / haven't "stolen" anything ... the uberwealthy are in that driver's seat ... rapidly returning us to a real feudalist society. They've got the money, and they OWN the system ... not the Boomers.

Further, as I have pointed out, everything the Boomers have now will soon be either in the hands of the next generations -- or in the hands of those uberwealthy I have been pointing at -- accurately.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:44 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,759,209 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
... as you like to spitefully repeat, you don't even come into the major metro areas. You're not going to get a sense of what is happening in California's economy while visiting the national parks.
User, you keep trying to paint my portrait and failing. I do hate cities, that's true. But my current California address has been in Hollywood for the past four years (will change within about the next year, however ... back north). Last trip I spent quite a bit of time in San Diego with family and friends. EVERY year I camp right inside San Francisco in the Marina district. SF happens to be the only city in the world that I actually look forward to spending time in at length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
...Yes, at this point I'd rather live in the rust belt than...sunny California.
There's a law against you moving? Go for it dude ... I won't turn you in!
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,393,193 times
Reputation: 4309
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Humans are perfectly well structured biologically to hunt and fish ... they evolved doing those things ... obviously.
Not so obvious....but as I think I asked of the other poster, I will reconsider my position if you take some footage of yourself taking down a large animal with your hands and teeth and consume it with them as well.

Before discuss this further, I'd like to see the footage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Taxes have existed since before the pyramids of Egypt. Inflation IS absolutely a necessary component of our economic system ... it is managed by the Fed with a goal of increasing at roughly 2% a year ... it is how credit is demanded in the economy, which is how new money is created, without which we collapse.
What is your point? I never said taxes are new, I said that these were the tools of wealth distribution and if you wanted to see how wealth was being distributed in a particular economy you can look at its taxes, inflation and deficits.

Inflation is an important aspect of the united states particular monetary system, but our particular monetary system by no means is the only one consist with modern economic theory. Inflation isn't necessary, its just a useful mechanism to transfer wealth within modern economic systems. The fact that the plebs don't understand it well, makes it all that much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
For the last time: The Boomers aren't / haven't "stolen" anything ... the uberwealthy are in that driver's seat ... rapidly returning us to a real feudalist society.
Of course they have, there are numerous transfers set in place that are sucking wealth from the Millennials (and Gen-X as well) and handing it over to the boomers and in California the transfers are particularly large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Further, as I have pointed out, everything the Boomers have now will soon be either in the hands of the next generations -- or in the hands of those uberwealthy I have been pointing at -- accurately.
You pointed this out, but the devil is in the details. Sure, there are certainly some lucky Millennials that will inherit a lot from their boomer parents....but that isn't the typical scenario. Instead, the boomers will slowly sale their assets to younger generations to fund their retirement. And it is in the sale price, where transfers of wealth can occur. If the government manipulates assets prices upward, by I don't know buying mortgages, allow banks to hold foreclosures for 10 years, etc, the sales will result in a transfer of wealth from the buyer to the seller. Of course, if the government did the opposite the opposite would occur.

Also, as I keep pointing out, assets are just part of the story. Social security, medicare and pensions are a big part of the story.....the latter being particularly important in California.
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