Why are California schools so bad ? (ranked, money, population)

[ImtheBrilliantest]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Notice also that the bulk of states at the very top are mostly white and homogeneous.

....I'm not sure what to make of that comment...

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by ImtheBrilliantest

....I'm not sure what to make of that comment...

It is obvious, but we'll let him explain...

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Guineas

2011 PISA math test scores ranked by state:

1 Massachusetts 50.7
2 Minnesota 43.1
3 Vermont 41.4
4 North Dakota 41
5 New Jersey 40.4
6 Kansas 40.2
7 South Dakota 39.1
8 Pennsylvania 38.3
9 New Hampshire 37.9
10 Montana 37.6
11 Virginia 37.5
12 Colorado 37.4
13 Wisconsin 37
14 Maryland 36.5
15 Wyoming 36
16 Washington 35.9
17 Ohio 35.4
18 Iowa 35.2
19 Indiana 35.1
20 Oregon 34.8
21 Connecticut 34.7
22 Texas 34.7
23 Nebraska 34.6
24 North Carolina 34.5
25 Maine 34.1
26 Idaho 34.1
27 Utah 32.4
28 Alaska 32.2
US Average 32.2
29 South Carolina 31.9
30 Delaware 31.3
31 Illinois 30.8
32 New York 30.2
33 Missouri 29.9
34 Michigan 28.9
35 Rhode Island 27.7
36 Florida 27.4
37 Kentucky 27.3
38 Arizona 26.3
39 Georgia 24.7
40 Arkansas 24.4
41 California 23.9
42 Tennessee 23.1
43 Nevada 23
44 Oklahoma 21.3
45 Hawaii 21.2
46 Louisiana 19
47 West Virginia 18.5
48 Alabama 18.2
49 New Mexico 17.4
50 Mississippi 13.6
51 DC 8

California ranked #41. Notice also that the bulk of states at the very top are mostly white and homogeneous.

Because New Jersey's whiter than Tennessee, Kentucky, and Missouri.

What the states at the top have in common is that none of them have anything like Prop 13 and most are small. Also, none are in the Sunbelt.

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Are we advocating for something here? Like, if there were only white people in CA, everything would be fine in terms of our precious PISA ranking?

No, I don't. I think California has other problems, hence why Texas still does so much better than CA given similar demographics.

Here is the 2011 Math PISA scores looking at NON-HISPANIC WHITES ONLY. California did improve its standing by 20 places, but still pales compared to Texas. But noticed that the smallish New England states that had done so well in the last list now falls behind in this ranking (with the exception of Massachusetts).

1 Massachusetts 58
2 Maryland 52.9
3 Texas 52.8
4 New Jersey 51.4
5 Minnesota 48.2
6 Colorado 48
7 Virginia 46.9
8 North Carolina 46.3
9 Kansas 46
10 North Dakota 44.1
11 South Carolina 43.9
12 Pennsylvania 43.9
13 Connecticut 43.7
14 Alaska 43.7
15 Delaware 43.2
16 South Dakota 42.6
17 Wisconsin 42.5
18 Vermont 42.1
US Average 41.8
19 Washington 41.7
20 Ohio 41.6
21 Montana 40.9
22 Nebraska 40.7
23 Illinois 40.6
24 Indiana 40.4
25 Arizona 39.5
26 California 39.5
27 New York 39.1
28 Oregon 39
29 New Hampshire 38.9
30 Wyoming 38.6
31 Iowa 37.9
32 Idaho 37.8
33 Florida 37.5
34 Georgia 37.2
35 Missouri 36.3
36 Utah 36.3
37 Michigan 35.3
38 Rhode Island 34.9
39 Maine 34.7
40 New Mexico 33.2
41 Nevada 32.1
42 Arkansas 30.5
43 Tennessee 29.7
44 Kentucky 29.5
45 Louisiana 28.3
46 Hawaii 27.6
47 Alabama 26.9
48 Oklahoma 25.5
49 Mississippi 23.9
50 West Virginia 19

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Guineas

I think California has other problems, hence why Texas still does so much better than CA given similar demographics.

California ranks 43rd in the country in per student spending. What does Texas rank?

[majoun]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

California ranks 43rd in the country in per student spending. What does Texas rank?

California is #36, Texas is #43.


Education Spending Per Student by State

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by majoun

California is #36, Texas is #43. Education Spending Per Student by State

I guess it depends on what document one is reading. This says 43rd, and it also claims it's using data from 2011.
Now 43rd in per-student spending | Thoughts on Public Education

And until we include pupil-teacher ratio (CA is much higher than most states), number of languages spoken by students, etc, etc, these comparisons aren't worth much anyway.

(Wow, I can't access the other two government documents due to the partial shutdown.)

[threepounduniverse]

[quote=Guineas;31772722]No, I don't. I think California has other problems, hence why Texas still does so much better than CA given similar demographics.

Here is the 2011 Math PISA scores looking at NON-HISPANIC WHITES ONLY. California did improve its standing by 20 places, but still pales compared to Texas. But noticed that the smallish New England states that had done so well in the last list now falls behind in this ranking (with the exception of Massachusetts).



Try this for why this disparity can exist and remain a difference without a distinction...

Texas Insider » So Much Time

I know from living here in CA with my kids in public schools (now 3 different and disparate CA school districts and counting) that most teachers teach to the test in one way or another... my son got one question wrong on the entire test... my daughter close to that. I know from being involved directly with the teachers what they do and do not do in the service of the The Tests... several friends from Austin, Denton and Ft. Worth that the schools there *religiously* teach to the test.

The context of this 'hierarchy of excellence' lol is as many others have said limited at best... and tells only a small part of the story concerning CA public school quality.

Preparing kids for life takes a lot more than ANY of U.S. public schools presently provide... a few exceptions do little more than prove the rule... Boston Latin, several in NYC and some others scattered around the U.S.A. such as Pacific Collegiate (Charter School with a 700 to one chance in the lottery per opening lol) here in Santa Cruz, etc...

As long as PE, Art, Music and Athletics are in insufficient quantity and quality, as long as all other subjects are being taught at mediocre quality level and as long as most schools around the country use the painfully outdated 'factory model' of classroom teaching, most U.S. schools will have to compete for which ones suck the *least*... in most cases, testing only confirms the inability of such tests to effectively address the overall issue of any given school's real quality... testing's only a slow start on a long journey.

[never-more]

[quote=Charles R Higgins;31775706]

Originally Posted by Guineas

No, I don't. I think California has other problems, hence why Texas still does so much better than CA given similar demographics.

Here is the 2011 Math PISA scores looking at NON-HISPANIC WHITES ONLY. California did improve its standing by 20 places, but still pales compared to Texas. But noticed that the smallish New England states that had done so well in the last list now falls behind in this ranking (with the exception of Massachusetts).



Try this for why this disparity can exist and remain a difference without a distinction...

Texas Insider » So Much Time

I know from living here in CA with my kids in public schools (now 3 different and disparate CA school districts and counting) that most teachers teach to the test in one way or another... my son got one question wrong on the entire test... my daughter close to that. I know from being involved directly with the teachers what they do and do not do in the service of the The Tests... several friends from Austin, Denton and Ft. Worth that the schools there *religiously* teach to the test.

The context of this 'hierarchy of excellence' lol is as many others have said limited at best... and tells only a small part of the story concerning CA public school quality.

Preparing kids for life takes a lot more than ANY of U.S. public schools presently provide... a few exceptions do little more than prove the rule... Boston Latin, several in NYC and some others scattered around the U.S.A. such as Pacific Collegiate (Charter School with a 700 to one chance in the lottery per opening lol) here in Santa Cruz, etc...

As long as PE, Art, Music and Athletics are in insufficient quantity and quality, as long as all other subjects are being taught at mediocre quality level and as long as most schools around the country use the painfully outdated 'factory model' of classroom teaching, most U.S. schools will have to compete for which ones suck the *least*... in most cases, testing only confirms the inability of such tests to effectively address the overall issue of any given school's real quality... testing's only a slow start on a long journey.

Just examine the ideas that think we should actually get rid of them....

[oldtrader]

California is #36, Texas is #43 in school spending.

But when school expenditure is adjusted for costs of living, doing business, etc., Texas actually spends more money than California for their schools.

Utah is lowest spender of all, but it's schools are ranked far superior to California, so it is not all about money.