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Old 03-19-2008, 08:23 AM
 
76 posts, read 356,403 times
Reputation: 32

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna7 View Post
While I'm sorry about your own personal situation with your daughter and the testing, may I ask how this "teaching to the test" is unique to California???

While I don't live in California at this moment, I certainly know that these standardized tests are part of life here in OH as well. We have good friends who are teachers who took early retirement due to the NCLB act, and feeling restricted as how they taught the kids.

Why don't people (in all states) put the accountability where it belongs instead of attacking schools, teachers, and students - all who have by law been mandated to teach to and pass these tests?

The question was "Why are California schools so bad"...and the answer is "standardized tests". If that's so, then how is CA different than the other states who also have to comply with NCLB? If you would have said, there's 80 kids in a class, no textbooks, teaching in locker rooms or in the bathroom because there's not enough classrooms avilable, or that there's a lot of ESL learners, at least that would have been unique (somewhat) to perhaps California, but standardized testing does not seem to be the unique variable.

P.S. - "The poor administration" is not (again) unique to California. Our administration in this dinky town in NE OH is out to lunch as well. We passed an income tax levy last Fall; that is in addition to our property tax levies. The bussing for the kids of this community has been cut in spite of the levies passing. We were lied to by the board of administration; there is very little accountability here either.

Also, our 24 year-old (our oldest) is graduating this Spring with an Education degree in Chemistry/Biology. He is doing student teaching at a very well-rated school in our area. They've also spent the last week in "practicing" for the OGT test (Ohio graduation test), and will spend a week taking them. He didn't get much student teaching done either. These teachers at the school are EXCELLENT. How is the teacher to be blamed for this? The teacher and the school has to abide by the state law. The states are mandated by the federal government and the NCLB is the "law of the land" (so to speak) for now.

So please, those of you in CA, please dispense with the drama, because some of us who do not live in CA, but are looking to relocate there, know what it's like educating children in other states, and it's not all a bed of roses here either. When I read threads such as this, I expect some real answers, and all I read is the same stuff that is happening in every single state of the union for the most part. If that' all you have, it's not any different than anywhere else.
Sorry,I never said that teaching to the test was unique to California.I gave you my expierences with teachers at my child's schools.That is great that you have friends who are great teachers,my best friend was also a teacher prior to her opening an after school tutoring program.Believe me she has a completely different view on teachers.She also ran a state wide after school program that services dozens of schools before opening her own.The fact is in CA you can pay $750,000 for a home and would not dare send your child to the local schools.That my friend is surely unique to CA.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:18 AM
 
9,523 posts, read 30,395,718 times
Reputation: 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieC View Post
The fact is in CA you can pay $750,000 for a home and would not dare send your child to the local schools.That my friend is surely unique to CA.
Actually it is common to not only every CA city, but the majority of NYC and most of the major eastern cities as well. The wealthy, expensive, inner-city neighborhoods often have poor local schools.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:41 AM
 
2,016 posts, read 5,195,112 times
Reputation: 1879
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieC View Post
Sorry,I never said that teaching to the test was unique to California.I gave you my expierences with teachers at my child's schools.That is great that you have friends who are great teachers,my best friend was also a teacher prior to her opening an after school tutoring program.Believe me she has a completely different view on teachers.She also ran a state wide after school program that services dozens of schools before opening her own.The fact is in CA you can pay $750,000 for a home and would not dare send your child to the local schools.That my friend is surely unique to CA.

I hear what you are saying and I validate it. I didn't think that you meant anything derogative, WinnieC; please accept my apologies if I what I said came out the wrong way. I am sorry for that. I have to have confidence in teachers (in spite of the high burn-out factor) because the children being educated are going to be the leaders of this country; either that, or they'll be on our public welfare rolls, in jail, and/or dead, and they're going to take other people down with them. None of us live on an island where we are immune to other people's suffering and social inequities. We try to barricade ourselves by living in developments with gates, but sooner or later we're out driving, socializing, and interacting with others, and we hope that we can all go about our lives without hurting others or being hurt.

I think that teachers can only operate within the constraints that surround them. I worked in Corporate America before deciding to stay home, raise the kids and run my own business, and there too, I could only function within the parameters I was given. I realize that there are some incompetant teachers, or maybe teachers who are burned out; I feel for these people. I feel also for students who want to learn regardless of their nationality or language spoken. I know that there are parents striving to give their children the best education possible and want them to have more than they did. I know that the standardized tests have taken a toll on teachers and students. What I was saying is that from reading these posts, one would think that this is a problem unique to CA, and for those of us who are looking to relocate, we're saying, we have the same problems here too (in our own states).

I agree with the high cost of housing in CA. Fortunately, housing prices are going down in all of the states, even the states that did not have double-digit appreciation. The price of housing in CA is an issue, there's no doubt about it. For me, that's an issue, but not the biggest issue. I'm more concerned about other factors and that's what I was hoping to read on this thread, read what is happening, how it is being handled.

Again, please accept my apologies if my post came out the wrong way. Thank you for your response.
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:16 AM
 
76 posts, read 356,403 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna7 View Post
I hear what you are saying and I validate it. I didn't think that you meant anything derogative, WinnieC; please accept my apologies if I what I said came out the wrong way. I am sorry for that. I have to have confidence in teachers (in spite of the high burn-out factor) because the children being educated are going to be the leaders of this country; either that, or they'll be on our public welfare rolls, in jail, and/or dead, and they're going to take other people down with them. None of us live on an island where we are immune to other people's suffering and social inequities. We try to barricade ourselves by living in developments with gates, but sooner or later we're out driving, socializing, and interacting with others, and we hope that we can all go about our lives without hurting others or being hurt.

I think that teachers can only operate within the constraints that surround them. I worked in Corporate America before deciding to stay home, raise the kids and run my own business, and there too, I could only function within the parameters I was given. I realize that there are some incompetant teachers, or maybe teachers who are burned out; I feel for these people. I feel also for students who want to learn regardless of their nationality or language spoken. I know that there are parents striving to give their children the best education possible and want them to have more than they did. I know that the standardized tests have taken a toll on teachers and students. What I was saying is that from reading these posts, one would think that this is a problem unique to CA, and for those of us who are looking to relocate, we're saying, we have the same problems here too (in our own states).

I agree with the high cost of housing in CA. Fortunately, housing prices are going down in all of the states, even the states that did not have double-digit appreciation. The price of housing in CA is an issue, there's no doubt about it. For me, that's an issue, but not the biggest issue. I'm more concerned about other factors and that's what I was hoping to read on this thread, read what is happening, how it is being handled.

Again, please accept my apologies if my post came out the wrong way. Thank you for your response.
No problem,apology accepted.I never want to discourage people from moving if that's what they feel they need to do.I just encourage people to review all of the factors.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:36 PM
 
2,016 posts, read 5,195,112 times
Reputation: 1879
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnieC View Post
No problem,apology accepted.I never want to discourage people from moving if that's what they feel they need to do.I just encourage people to review all of the factors.
Hi there, WinnieC:

Thank you for your post. Yes, reviewing all the factors is so vitally important when one has kids because it is very difficult to not only uproot once when moving, but to have to possibly do it again if the move doesn't work out. I realize that some people are in careers that require relocation every few years, which is understandable. For us, personally, we would only uproot all of our children, if there was a clearly defined advantage in doing so. Right now, we are not seeing the clear advantage so we've decided to stay put for at least another school year, keeping our eyes on the CA housing market as well as other things.

I really appreciate your honesty and I hope that this thread continues with honest feedback as many of us are counting on hearing honesty from the locals, the good as well as the negative as it pertains to education. I know there are challenges in every state. I truly wish the best for all of us and our children no matter where we are located because it truly is a small world out there and everyone matters and makes a difference in one way or the other.

Wishing you a happy day!

Last edited by Donna7; 03-20-2008 at 01:07 PM..
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Old 03-21-2008, 08:13 AM
 
Location: CA
830 posts, read 2,706,072 times
Reputation: 1025
Default taxes and schools

Quote:
anyways tax's fund schools every where in one way or another. thats why the schools in california in affluent area's tend to be better.
Actually, it doesn't work that way in CA. Due to Prop. 13 passed in 1978, taxes on properties are capped unless the property title is transfered. It caused huge reductions in the average property tax. In addition, money collected from property taxes goes to the state to be redistributed evenly to all CA schools. So big, fancy houses do not make more money for individual school districts. For one, a lot of those big fancy houses are paying little property tax. A district made up mostly of mansions gets the same basic state funding as the ghetto school.

With even state funding (and very low per-pupil spenditure as compared to most of the US), school funding varies by two other means: special funds like Title I that are for very specific purposes and can only be used for that, and parental contributions. So you'll see in districts with wealthy parents a sort of "semi-privatization" of schools. They buy stuff (really essentials that the basic funding does not allow for) for their schools via fundraising. In many school districts around here, parents are asked for contributions of hundreds of dollars per student. In neighborhoods where parents can't afford that, they just don't have those "extras".

I don't think money is the only reason schools do well or poorly, but it's certainly a factor - if you don't want to pay for schools (particularly the populations who most benefit from the tax-slash - older home owners with little incentive to fund schools because they don't have students in the public school system), your schools will be missing some things.

As regards teacher preparation, the CBEST is not the only requirement teachers take to become teachers. If the poster knows candidates who struggled with the CBEST (easy-cheesy) then they will certainly struggle on the CSET and the RICA and their future teacher prep courseload. I don't think anyone who took 7 attempts to pass the CBEST is going to be able to complete the other requirements in any kind of timely manner. California actually has one of the (probably THE most) stringent teacher requirements in the country. Teachers transfering from other states sometimes give up on trying to make the requirements necessary to get their CA credential and just get other jobs. Going in the other direction, teachers with a CA credential are pretty much set wherever they go in the US because the courses and tests they've completed exceed the new state's standards.
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:10 PM
 
116 posts, read 416,734 times
Reputation: 31
We live in Oak Park, CA and the public schools are quite good here. We are from Europe and happy so far with the schools. My daughter has 16 students in her kindergarten class. All the schools are top rated in our district. Most people from our area send the children to local public schools.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:09 PM
 
24 posts, read 136,753 times
Reputation: 38
Unfortunately for California, the problem lies with the virtual elimination of morals and ethics, sponsored by these very schools. Also, the illegal population has taken it upon themselves to refuse to assimilate. Forcing non-english to be spoken in public, etc.. As a result, illegals' children have a hard time coping and learning. I have found that almost all of the schools advertise as a 'Number one' type but when I sent my child to them, the schools fell way short thereby leading me to know how badly they have failed. So those 'Top Rated' school districts are nothing more than what every other one is. A flop to our children.
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:07 AM
 
375 posts, read 1,721,442 times
Reputation: 140
I have never seen 80 kids in a (K-12) class here in CA??? The most 32.
My daughter has two teachers in her 6th grade class.

The high school here is on a 90 min session for each class. They attend 4 classes one day and 4 different classes the next.

The schools in my area really do care about each child. If in the lower grades they show any signs of a learning problem, they are tested and given RSP help. No child is left behind. They will get extra help if they need it all the way through high school and even college (state schools) if they need it. Not all of the school districts here are like this. I watched all three of my nephews struggle with school (they are all graduated now). One, the Navy forced the school to give him a diploma. My two young kids can read better then all of them. Very sad.

BTW, my stepson went to several schools in WI. The schools there are not any better the ones that my kids attend here in CA. I've been to the schools in WI, because were thinking about moving there. There are problems every where.

I think most of the problems (every where) are the parents. They are not willing to help or get extra help for their children when they need it. Plus stay on top of their child's homework and reports.
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Fresno
110 posts, read 294,383 times
Reputation: 112
I think the problems with California schools largely result from parents lack of involvement in their children's education. Many parents think it's solely the teacher's responsibility to educate their child. Teachers can only do but so much with resources they are given. Yeah, if every class had 5 kids, you could probably give everyone a quality education with little reinforcement at home. But the reality is that teachers deal with kids from pretty challenging backgrounds who get no reinforcement or support at home.

Those students that come from homes that don't value and reinforce education force teachers to teach to a lower standard. My daughter is in kindergarten, and the reading materials she brings home from school are laughable. They're at least two grade levels too low. But you know what? Many of the kids in her class are probably still struggling with those same materials. I think if you pick a neighborhood with high achievers that has a limited number of kids being bused in from other neighborhoods, you can do well in the California school system.


Having said that, I think schools should issue parent report cards, and post them in public where other parents can see them. At a minimum schools should post report cards for parents who are aren't meeting minimum standards in supporting their child's education. Peer pressure works for adults too.
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