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Oliver Stone. Morgan Freeman. The late, great Maya Angelou.
I'd bet good money others on the list as well. But it is dangerous for the careers of some, such as sitting politicians, to admit contemporary use - or to take the chance of being caught using.
Not making a judgement. Merely telling a story (said as someone who unlike our revered former president, I DID inhale )
A college acquaintance of mine was a talented violinist. Like many of us in the late 60's early 70's, he was experimenting. He had dreams of a professional career in classical music, and he was good enough to do so. He stopped the marijuana smoking because of perceived memory losses. In his field of endeavor he had to memorize very long and complex pieces, hence the concern.
I just now looked him up. Had not thought about him in many years. I dont know if he ever had a solo career or not, but he has been a member of one of the great philharmonic orchestras since 1977.
One of my sons is a pot head, and I can see it in him, the lack of ambition, the lack of responsibility. Is it the result of pot? Or are my wife and I failures as parents? One of my sons was summa *** laude at his university and is now gainfully employed as a math teacher in a major school district in California. So we must have done something right.
Back in my D&D days, several of the group smoked a lot of pot. One of the guys, Glen (not a pot smoker) and I (who had stopped smoking by then) had an interesting conversation. Glen observed that just about all of us in the group were underachievers. It is something I had observed over the years as well.
Look, I'm trying to be objective here. And I have my own demons. Just saying that it is easy to fool oneself regarding circumstance and addiction.
Not making a judgement. Merely telling a story (said as someone who unlike our revered former president, I DID inhale )
A college acquaintance of mine was a talented violinist. Like many of us in the late 60's early 70's, he was experimenting. He had dreams of a professional career in classical music, and he was good enough to do so. He stopped the marijuana smoking because of perceived memory losses. In his field of endeavor he had to memorize very long and complex pieces, hence the concern.
I just now looked him up. Had not thought about him in many years. I dont know if he ever had a solo career or not, but he has been a member of one of the great philharmonic orchestras since 1977.
One of my sons is a pot head, and I can see it in him, the lack of ambition, the lack of responsibility. Is it the result of pot? Or are my wife and I failures as parents? One of my sons was summa *** laude at his university and is now gainfully employed as a math teacher in a major school district in California. So we must have done something right.
Back in my D&D days, several of the group smoked a lot of pot. One of the guys, Glen (not a pot smoker) and I (who had stopped smoking by then) had an interesting conversation. Glen observed that just about all of us in the group were underachievers. It is something I had observed over the years as well.
Look, I'm trying to be objective here. And I have my own demons. Just saying that it is easy to fool oneself regarding circumstance and addiction.
You are doomed to a life of frustration and misery. Very little about what any society considers right and wrong, proper and improper is based on logic. We could have a long conversation on the numerous examples of this we see daily. It will never change. What we consider right or wrong may change, but the fact that most of it will not be based on logic never will. Societies simply determine what is acceptable and what isn't and that's just the way it is.
Of course I'd believe you if you tell me you know successful older people who smoke weed. I didn't say they don't exist. They are few in numbers though. As I also said, perhaps legalization will change that over time. I'm actually glad a couple states legalized it. It makes a good case study. We really need to observe it for 5-10 years before we can draw any conclusions though. I would be happier if they simply enforced the rules for pot. You aren't supposed to smoke it in public. It's against the law.
BTW, some day you will have to explain to me how Mr. Logic who dislikes growth, thinks CA has far too many people, and dislikes consumerism ended up choosing to live in one of the most crowded and pricy areas of CA.
No frustration or misery. You apparently misunderstand me. I agreed with you that there is no logic to social trends, traditions, and mores.
Older people - that is those who survive into old age - mostly, necessarily, learn to drink less, smoke less weed, and even eat less food. Certainly less flagrantly, grossly indulgent foods. The body simply won't tolerate as much. So, few in numbers? Sure. But not because weed is evil in itself at all stages of life.
I do know a number of exceptions. One good friend turns 83 this Thursday. I've known him for 50 years. He was a teacher in my last year of high school. He smokes dope pretty much daily all that time. He is a retired programmer who worked at the Pentagon for many years, among other places, and is also a fascinating poet. Riveting, actually.
I know two other Vietnam vets like myself, who at 68 and 69 still smoke weed everyday, and you would never think they were under that influence. They both worked full, successful careers supporting families. Truth is you would find them impressive individuals. Very sharp. Very intelligent and engaging. Funny thing is, you would NOT want to know these guys if they didn't smoke weed everyday. I assure you I know a quite a few truly remarkable people who indulge as they age still.
As to your last question: Uncle Sam brought me to California. San Diego first. Then Alameda. Vietnam a couple times between. When I arrived, the state had half today's population. Living on a boat as I do, however, has allowed me a sense of freedom from many of the pressures you ashore grapple with. I can break out into open ocean. Sail to Half Moon Bay and Monterey Bay. All the way south to Mexico if I choose. Or I can head north to Bodega Bay. I can sail from the City up rivers and through 1000 miles of waterways in the Delta. To Sacramento. To Stockton. Fishing all the way. The only place I have ever been similarly tempted by is Puget Sound Washington. But I just flat out can't do that half year + of cold wet gloomy weather. I do go there to sail with a buddy nearly every year. I also cop to being addicted to San Francisco. I have had a fantastic ride living in the Bay. Can't let it go.
"Originally Posted by Tulemutt
The meaning of your comment escapes me. Every person on the list is / was a dope smoker. Plenty of "accomplished somebodies" have smoked weed.
I started smoking weed about '66. Never have had any particular desire to "become somebody". I have always been somebody. Perfectly satisfied being who I am: somebody who is nobody special.
Smoking weed never interfered with my plans. Never caused me a lick of trouble. Never interfered with a day's work. Never interfered with my relationships. Never cost me anything I couldn't afford and wasn't happy to spend.
I don't need much. Don't ask for much. Don't expect much. I have everything I desire: some deep relationships, good health, a mind and spirit free of burden and illusions, a lifestyle that suits me. My life has always been really full. Love. Joy. Curiosity. Wonder. Amusement.
Weed hasn't created - nor destroyed - any of that."
Druggies telling the rest of us how logical they are... now thats good for a laugh.. the thing is about drug use,,, once used any action without it is unrealized... so any statemnt about its effect upons one's existence is by default already skewed,,, there are no do-overs bud...
It obvious I occupy space for free in your mind.. you follow me like a puppy dog... which means in some way you allow me to own you.. which is a saliant example of the way drugs own a person... please dont take it personal.. my comments are not meant to be.. you arent the only person who espouses drugs and want to expand their use that is trapped by them
You fall into the internet doper trap that many people addicted to drugs fall into.. they continually try to demonstrate to the rest of us how normal they are in their addictions.. they do so like little children saying..look over here,,, look at all these famous people.. if they were sucessful than so am I...
If we picked apart the lives of all the people you named I think it would reveal they have as many issues as the next person.. and in many cases many more and are seriously screwed up...
You tout all these professionals you know who are dopers.. well... every professional I know doesnt use drugs...every single one... for all the right reasons.. they want every cell of their being used positively and not wasted in a haze
Marijuana continues to be bad for America on all levels.. legalization only compounds the problem.. more kids use it.. more DUI.. more social welfare.. more lack of motivated persons.. more eco terrorism... more crime... more of anything bad one could measure attached directly to something...
Again.. look at how cities and counties are now trying to walk back this menace through regulation.. because dopers by their very nature cannot control themselves or self-police obnoxious, potentially dangerous, and many times criminal behavior
It was interesting to observe doper behavior at BOS meetings in my county where valuable time was taken up trying to accomodate doper nation activists (of course it was also funny watching them rant and rave knowing it was the only thing they had going that day).. watching them purposefully light up outside council chambers and blow the smoke into the doorways.. (of course smart enough not to do it in the presence of anyone who could do something about it legally)...
We see their behavior everyday and how much they care about others.. with 95 percent non -compliance here it certainly is crystal clear.. people who use drugs dont respect themselves.. and dont respect anyone else...
I feel sorry for druggies and their wasted existence.. but it doesnt mean we should enable them in any fashion.. and we have.. which has got us the disaster we have today in California... please feel free to puff 'em if youve got 'em...better that than a gross mental health evaluation or having you standing on a tower one day with a rifle... opps.. I forgot.. if you answered corectlly on your federal form you cant own a gun...
Oh.. now I feel better.... not
Marimania... yep.. lets add that to Websters
Heh. Hoo-boy. Read this last night and had to chuckle and set aside. Cop looses his cool and resorts to attempts at paternal condescension to try and gain control of a situation where his paramilitary gear doesn't rule. So who owns who? You are so used to dominating others that when a person doesn't obsequiously fawn before your bullying you short circuit. Tch.
Now then, about your silly opinions. Your posts on this forum reveal a simple-minded one-trick pony. Your nearly sole topic is bashing marijuana - as if it represents prime evil on the planet. You say you enjoy "spirited discourse" and that you bring science to the conversations. But you don't. Your spirited discourse amounts to narrow-minded bashing, with a single, giant, stiffened paintbrush, everyone who smokes marijuana. Your scientific references are ridiculously specious and flawed. You have been solidly corrected, repeatedly, by several (besides me) whose knowledge of the subject is clearly extensive and verified.
Officer, as I have noted before about you and the majority of your brotherhood, your world view is limited to the depravity you confront on a daily basis. As imposing as that world is on all of our lives, it is really quite small as a percentage of total experience. More than 2/3's of adults drink alcohol. Yet only about 10% fall to alcoholism. The numbers for marijuana use are roughly half that of alcohol. And between the two, if one was to quantify negative outcomes as a total of the two indulgences, including deaths, from consumption - i.e. addiction, physical disease, accidents, injuries, violence, and the like - alcohol would likely rank well into the mid-90% range of source of problems.
And I am pretty sure you know this, but somehow accept it. It is hard to imagine anyone in your profession not knowing.
Your experiences prove nothing but how limited your world view is. My experiences also prove that your experiences are limited. My posts reveal a broad life experience. There is nothing "stoned" about my ability to communicate them either.
As for "following you around like a puppy"? It would be more along the lines of following a bad odor in a crawl space to determine its source.
All I am going to say is weed made me more productive. In school I was a C-B student, actually got a few F's in seventh grade. Freshman year I started smoking a lot of pot, well, an 1/8th a week during sophomore and junior years p, only a gram a week as a senior. I was so scared I would get discovered that I started working super hard in school, got B's or A's in all my A.P./honor classes. Graduated with honors.
Quit when I graduated.
People can't say, "weed is good/bad" in general, but can say, " weed is good/bad for me."
Currently I own a house, am teaching highschool history, and have a great family. Weed didn't prevent any of that.
All I am going to say is weed made me more productive. In school I was a C-B student, actually got a few F's in seventh grade. Freshman year I started smoking a lot of pot, well, an 1/8th a week during sophomore and junior years p, only a gram a week as a senior. I was so scared I would get discovered that I started working super hard in school, got B's or A's in all my A.P./honor classes. Graduated with honors.
Quit when I graduated.
People can't say, "weed is good/bad" in general, but can say, " weed is good/bad for me."
Currently I own a house, am teaching highschool history, and have a great family. Weed didn't prevent any of that.
This actually happened to my cousin as well. He was a B/C student throughout high school and didn't have much focus. About his second year in college, he started turning it around, eventually got his MBA and is now one of the top young auditors in a Big 4 firm.
He started smoking weed around that same time (second or third year in college). I'm not saying one thing led to another, but his drive and motivation to do well in life significantly increased as he's gotten older. He still smokes to this day, and is engaged. I have no doubt, whether or not he chooses to continue to smoke, that he will do well and be successful.
Additionally, when I was in college, weed smoking was like a competitive sport in many corners. Yet, I see a lot of these same people today and they are doing big things, in most cases regardless of whether or not they smoke. I think we have to be careful about (as many other posters say) painting everyone with a broad brush.
Take drinking for instance. Some people are angry drunks, some are loud, some are happy, some are sad. Everyone doesn't react to alcohol in the same manner. The same is obviously true with weed. I've certainly seen people who were unmotivated who were potheads, but given the large number of opposite cases I've seen, my hypothesis is that a person's motivation is more a function of the characteristics of that particular person then it is related to their choice to smoke.
My honest opinion is that if you drink at all, and you call people that smoke losers or something similar, you're the very definition of a hypocrite. If you've tried both and you honestly think that drinking is somehow less harmful, you're completely stuck on stupid. If you do neither, you're pretty much a teetotaler and irrelevant in the context of this conversation.
Not making a judgement. Merely telling a story (said as someone who unlike our revered former president, I DID inhale )
A college acquaintance of mine was a talented violinist. Like many of us in the late 60's early 70's, he was experimenting. He had dreams of a professional career in classical music, and he was good enough to do so. He stopped the marijuana smoking because of perceived memory losses. In his field of endeavor he had to memorize very long and complex pieces, hence the concern.
I just now looked him up. Had not thought about him in many years. I dont know if he ever had a solo career or not, but he has been a member of one of the great philharmonic orchestras since 1977.
One of my sons is a pot head, and I can see it in him, the lack of ambition, the lack of responsibility. Is it the result of pot? Or are my wife and I failures as parents? One of my sons was summa *** laude at his university and is now gainfully employed as a math teacher in a major school district in California. So we must have done something right.
Back in my D&D days, several of the group smoked a lot of pot. One of the guys, Glen (not a pot smoker) and I (who had stopped smoking by then) had an interesting conversation. Glen observed that just about all of us in the group were underachievers. It is something I had observed over the years as well.
Look, I'm trying to be objective here. And I have my own demons. Just saying that it is easy to fool oneself regarding circumstance and addiction.
Good post, Chuck. The questions are understandable and valid. A refreshingly distinct departure from the blind certainty of Officer Friendly.
My take on whether pot can be harmful or not is: yes, certainly it can be harmful. Same as lots of things. Everyone is an individual, individually affected by an infinite number of interactions and dynamics. Some people are negatively affected by smoking weed - and, hopefully, should recognize that and not indulge.
On the other hand, some people enjoy the experience - just as many enjoy a glass or two ( or even three or four ) of wine / beer. This isn't new stuff. Marijuana has been cultivated since about 3,000 B.C. Obviously used from the wild long before that. Civilizations haven't collapsed over it. Furthermore, adult and youth use in America has been on a slight decline for the past 30 years.
Heh. One more personal anecdote. I had a friend who I have fallen out of touch with in recent years so can't report if he is still smoking weed or not. However, he certainly still did well into his 40's. He maintains his law license with his state bar association, and was also educated as an engineer, but has pursued careers as an entrepreneur starting up a couple of interesting businesses that did fairly well. Last I heard he was a real estate and mortgage broker, and has done very well in that world of finance. The guy knows every phone number of everyone he is acquainted with, by heart. He must have at least half dozen credit cards in his wallet - and he knows every card number in his head. He calculates engineering formulas and finance payments in his head and on a napkin at alarming speeds. Now, he didn't smoke weed everyday, but he was a regular user weekly away from work. I've never met anyone can match his memory.
OTH, I'm sure we all know sober people who can't remember to buy milk at the grocery store if they don't have a list to consult.
As for your kids: we all know some real great kids that come from crappy homes. And we all know kids who struggle that come from outstanding home backgrounds. Your one son may be not cut out for smoking pot, for sure. But I wouldn't beat myself up about it being your fault if I was you.
All I am going to say is weed made me more productive. In school I was a C-B student, actually got a few F's in seventh grade. Freshman year I started smoking a lot of pot, well, an 1/8th a week during sophomore and junior years p, only a gram a week as a senior. I was so scared I would get discovered that I started working super hard in school, got B's or A's in all my A.P./honor classes. Graduated with honors.
Quit when I graduated.
People can't say, "weed is good/bad" in general, but can say, " weed is good/bad for me."
Currently I own a house, am teaching highschool history, and have a great family. Weed didn't prevent any of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majicdonjuan
This actually happened to my cousin as well. He was a B/C student throughout high school and didn't have much focus. About his second year in college, he started turning it around, eventually got his MBA and is now one of the top young auditors in a Big 4 firm.
He started smoking weed around that same time (second or third year in college). I'm not saying one thing led to another, but his drive and motivation to do well in life significantly increased as he's gotten older. He still smokes to this day, and is engaged. I have no doubt, whether or not he chooses to continue to smoke, that he will do well and be successful.
Additionally, when I was in college, weed smoking was like a competitive sport in many corners. Yet, I see a lot of these same people today and they are doing big things, in most cases regardless of whether or not they smoke. I think we have to be careful about (as many other posters say) painting everyone with a broad brush.
Take drinking for instance. Some people are angry drunks, some are loud, some are happy, some are sad. Everyone doesn't react to alcohol in the same manner. The same is obviously true with weed. I've certainly seen people who were unmotivated who were potheads, but given the large number of opposite cases I've seen, my hypothesis is that a person's motivation is more a function of the characteristics of that particular person then it is related to their choice to smoke.
My honest opinion is that if you drink at all, and you call people that smoke losers or something similar, you're the very definition of a hypocrite. If you've tried both and you honestly think that drinking is somehow less harmful, you're completely stuck on stupid. If you do neither, you're pretty much a teetotaler and irrelevant in the context of this conversation.
Just my opinion.
Couple of excellent, honest, fair, enlightening posts.
What the hell did you put in your body that caused such an inane rant?
Nevermind. Nobody cares.
Deep-seated anger and resentment, clearly. And we wonder why there so often exists a deep disconnect between citizens and the PoPo. If mere potsmokers elicit such vitriol, what do these types think of the rest of the populace? Aren't we glad they're armed to the teeth? (Looking real good in Ferguson, btw, boys. Can't recognize you behind the masks and GI Joe gear).
Really need to stop using the "might be in possession of weed" excuse, among other convenient ones, for illegal police behavior.
Last edited by bigdumbgod; 08-20-2014 at 03:49 PM..
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)
You are so used to dominating others that when a person doesn't obsequiously fawn before your bullying you short circuit. Tch.
) of wine / beer. This isn't new stuff. Marijuana has been cultivated since about 3,000 B.C. Obviously used from the wild long before that. Civilizations haven't collapsed over it. Furthermore, adult and youth use in America has been on a slight decline for the past 30 years.
