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first off the greatest advancement in this nation in terms of medicine, engineering, technology has been in the last 4 or 5 decades, not in the time before it.. heck, electric power wasn't even prevalent until the 1900s. If you want to look at it in terms of contribution to the country this is the time period that counts most. It's also quite illogical to include a period in time where the number of minorities in the country were very low due to selective immigration and discriminatory practices of the whites.
In the last 4 or 5 decades minorities have contributed immensely, just as much as whites. So making a statement such as "white's built this country into a powerhouse" is nothing but racist elitism.
Some interesting points.
First off, the point you were addressing was about which ethnicity did the most to "build America" which might counter your timing. Even if we argue that America became a world power only after WW II, we can still reasonably talk about the framework leading up to that success. That includes plenty of room to point out that our expansionist period after the Civil War and the Great White Fleet just prior to WW I, not to mention the racial composition of the original 13 colonies.
Still you have a good point, we can definitely informally correlate an extreme acceleration in technological development to a period of time when racial policies were liberalizing: The acceptance of equal rights and racial equality not just in law but in society. Follow that with increasing gender equality at the social level. These aren't the sole cause but it's safe to say they made noticeable contributions.
We also know that prejudices of the past would have meant that any meaningful contributions by non-favored races (colored, Irish, Italian, Slavic) would not have rarely been recorded in history or at least, rarely popularized. This would bias our view of who "built" America because could those white industrial titans really have accomplished what they did without the assistants and laborers (that were frequently literally worked to death in a pre-OSHA era)?
Certainly a lot of this acceleration is self-feeding as tech begets more tech and that other factors were making a difference too, such as WW II. However the development post-70s accelerated so quickly that there's plenty of room for every factor, including opening up opportunities to all races and genders.
There was also the good point that systemic discriminatory practices also means that we should be expecting the dominant group to have made most of the contributions. It is therefore technically correct to say that "Whites built America" but also misleadingly simplified like those "As Seen on TV" product commercials.
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How about we just change the phrase to:
Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Germanic-Nordic Whites built America in her first 150 years!
*Conditions apply. Majority population was largely Western European to begin with. Other ethnicities, where & when they existed, were systematically suppressed through law and social rules. Standard human social-psychological conditions may lead to selective recording and celebration of leadership. Definition of accepted Whites changes without notice. Rationality isn't for everyone and one-upmanship based on ethnicity as a criteria could occur. If you are feeling tyrannical, genocidal, or generally racist please consult your nearest sociopath or racist of differing color to see if your arguments are right for them.
Who built America! Totally relevant as we look forward to building the future! Or more realistically, looking forward to fixing the crumbling remains of our past glory that was left under-maintained by neglectful politicians, for who we can also make imprecise correlations using their racial backgrounds! White people. Responsible for everything!
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But on a more serious note, I think this "white people built America" phrase has picked up several different connotations to it because of the vagueness of the wording. Which specific white ethnicities or nationalities? What exact time frame covering which accomplishments? Because of this two people saying "White people built America" could actually be thinking of very different things.
The phrase by itself is technically true for a limited period of time in early American history when the population was more uniform. Some people identify with this vaguely defined group to vicariously share in that success. There's also the reverse of the same phenomenon: Some people vicariously identify people of other races to bad times in history. I don't mean all of this as a criticism, I mean to point this out as a natural state of human psychology and that illogical mistakes happen.
I think the behavior is mostly normal and harmless until it is used as an ego-boosting tool. That black salesman at the car dealership didn't pick any cotton as a slave. That Asian Computer Science major back at college didn't invent gunpowder. That Mexican kid at the taco shop cash register didn't fight at the Alamo. The Japanese ramen cook down the street didn't buy out a quarter of Los Angeles' RE in the 80s only to lose it all in the early 90s.
First off, the point you were addressing was about which ethnicity did the most to "build America" which might counter your timing. Even if we argue that America became a world power only after WW II, we can still reasonably talk about the framework leading up to that success. That includes plenty of room to point out that our expansionist period after the Civil War and the Great White Fleet just prior to WW I, not to mention the racial composition of the original 13 colonies.
Still you have a good point, we can definitely informally correlate an extreme acceleration in technological development to a period of time when racial policies were liberalizing: The acceptance of equal rights and racial equality not just in law but in society. Follow that with increasing gender equality at the social level. These aren't the sole cause but it's safe to say they made noticeable contributions.
We also know that prejudices of the past would have meant that any meaningful contributions by non-favored races (colored, Irish, Italian, Slavic) would not have rarely been recorded in history or at least, rarely popularized. This would bias our view of who "built" America because could those white industrial titans really have accomplished what they did without the assistants and laborers (that were frequently literally worked to death in a pre-OSHA era)?
Certainly a lot of this acceleration is self-feeding as tech begets more tech and that other factors were making a difference too, such as WW II. However the development post-70s accelerated so quickly that there's plenty of room for every factor, including opening up opportunities to all races and genders.
There was also the good point that systemic discriminatory practices also means that we should be expecting the dominant group to have made most of the contributions. It is therefore technically correct to say that "Whites built America" but also misleadingly simplified like those "As Seen on TV" product commercials.
---
How about we just change the phrase to:
Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Germanic-Nordic Whites built America in her first 150 years!
*Conditions apply. Majority population was largely Western European to begin with. Other ethnicities, where & when they existed, were systematically suppressed through law and social rules. Standard human social-psychological conditions may lead to selective recording and celebration of leadership. Definition of accepted Whites changes without notice. Rationality isn't for everyone and one-upmanship based on ethnicity as a criteria could occur. If you are feeling tyrannical, genocidal, or generally racist please consult your nearest sociopath or racist of differing color to see if your arguments are right for them.
Who built America! Totally relevant as we look forward to building the future! Or more realistically, looking forward to fixing the crumbling remains of our past glory that was left under-maintained by neglectful politicians, for who we can also make imprecise correlations using their racial backgrounds! White people. Responsible for everything!
---
But on a more serious note, I think this "white people built America" phrase has picked up several different connotations to it because of the vagueness of the wording. Which specific white ethnicities or nationalities? What exact time frame covering which accomplishments? Because of this two people saying "White people built America" could actually be thinking of very different things.
The phrase by itself is technically true for a limited period of time in early American history when the population was more uniform. Some people identify with this vaguely defined group to vicariously share in that success. There's also the reverse of the same phenomenon: Some people vicariously identify people of other races to bad times in history. I don't mean all of this as a criticism, I mean to point this out as a natural state of human psychology and that illogical mistakes happen.
I think the behavior is mostly normal and harmless until it is used as an ego-boosting tool. That black salesman at the car dealership didn't pick any cotton as a slave. That Asian Computer Science major back at college didn't invent gunpowder. That Mexican kid at the taco shop cash register didn't fight at the Alamo. The Japanese ramen cook down the street didn't buy out a quarter of Los Angeles' RE in the 80s only to lose it all in the early 90s.
Yes there is vast difference between opportunity, which the "whites" (in general, but not every white) had in the past and potential which all races have. Today new discoveries are race neutral, as the opportunities have become fairly universal, though some countries may lag behind, and the various races are all .......... equal as to ability.
Yes there is vast difference between opportunity, which the "whites" (in general, but not every white) had in the past and potential which all races have. Today new discoveries are race neutral, as the opportunities have become fairly universal, though some countries may lag behind, and the various races are all .......... equal as to ability.
The various races have equal access to opportunity, and are treated (incarcerated) equally? Damn, how far we've come!
It isn't that they are Latino per se..its that they are literally the worst immigrants we could have picked, had we gone out looking for them.
There is ZERO selection process happening - its just based on proximity and who can break in here...that's not going to result in a high quality immigrant.
If this country actually did require any new citizens, which it clearly does not (got 300M so we'll never run out)...then the correct and proper process to follow would be to conduct it like a hiring process - you find the best qualified applicant based on a system that matches requirements to characteristics and abilities and you select the best fit.
That's how a rational person would go about it.
What we've got is nothing but chaos. Imaging hiring random strangers simply on the basis of whether they were able to sneak into the building.
Do you think Facebook or Google or Apple would be able to operate effectively and create class-leading products if they did that?
This is one reason why CA is doomed.
If illegal immigrants were pouring in from Canada, or any other predominantly White nation, the great majority of all citizens of all races would be in unanimous agreement that it needed to stop.
We would be enforcing our laws to combat illegal immigration, which would have forced them to self-deport. The problem would have virtually ended 40 years ago.
What you propose above is the common sense that would have prevailed in place of chaos.
But since our illegal immigrants are not white, there are at least two forces at work here.
One as I mentioned earlier, is that no one wants to be perceived as racist.
The California judges would have never over turned proposition 187 if the illegal immigrants were White.
Next, there is strong altruism and sympathy on the part of Whites to see others racial groups be given the same chance to succeed that their own forefathers received generations ago, even if they have to break the law to do it..
To provide an analogy, we would sympathize with a lawbreaker who had to break into the pharmacy in the middle of the night, if this was the only way to get much needed medication to avoid their grandma's death. We would forgive them since we might do the same thing.
Similarly, we forgive illegal aliens for breaking out laws since we might do the same thing.
Since Whites were in complete control of the power structure in the US for its first 190 years, struggling Whites collectively would not receive the same amount of sympathy or aid.
Furthermore, the more you give the more they want, and if you try to take away what has been given, whether it was rational or not, the consequences would be dire.
I cannot even imagine the massive riots and chaos that would ensue if our government ever began to seriously enforce our laws regarding illegal immigration.
We have nationwide rioting in the streets unparalleled in our history, which could be another reason we look the other way.
If illegal immigrants were pouring in from Canada, or any other predominantly White nation, the great majority of all citizens of all races would be in unanimous agreement that it needed to stop.
We would be enforcing our laws to combat illegal immigration, which would have forced them to self-deport. The problem would have virtually ended 40 years ago.
What you propose above is the common sense that would have prevailed in place of chaos.
But since our illegal immigrants are not white, there are at least two forces at work here.
One as I mentioned earlier, is that no one wants to be perceived as racist.
The California judges would have never over turned proposition 187 if the illegal immigrants were White.
Next, there is strong altruism and sympathy on the part of Whites to see others racial groups be given the same chance to succeed that their own forefathers received generations ago, even if they have to break the law to do it..
To provide an analogy, we would sympathize with a lawbreaker who had to break into the pharmacy in the middle of the night, if this was the only way to get much needed medication to avoid their grandma's death. We would forgive them since we might do the same thing.
Similarly, we forgive illegal aliens for breaking out laws since we might do the same thing.
Since Whites were in complete control of the power structure in the US for its first 190 years, struggling Whites collectively would not receive the same amount of sympathy or aid.
Furthermore, the more you give the more they want, and if you try to take away what has been given, whether it was rational or not, the consequences would be dire.
I cannot even imagine the massive riots and chaos that would ensue if our government ever began to seriously enforce our laws regarding illegal immigration.
We have nationwide rioting in the streets unparalleled in our history, which could be another reason we look the other way.
BS the government has given business a big wet kiss for 40 years by allowing undocumented people to enter and work in this Country. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of immigrants, it's just about money. It could have been stopped decades ago by putting employers in jail who hired undocumented people. What you have now is the result of a 40 year old program designed to provide below market rate labor to business and destroy private sector labor unions. People do not cross a border to come and visit our sunny beaches they come here for jobs. When the economy started to prosper a tiny bit in Mexico we destroyed their entire farming industry with NAFTA. It won't stop because it's still beneficial to big agra and business so quit deluding yourself,
If there was any will to stop this, all it would take is requiring the use of e-verify prospectively (to all new employees) with a prison sentence for employers who cheat the system or fail to use it and then offering legal status to immigrants who have been here over some period in time with a path to citizenship.
BS the government has given business a big wet kiss for 40 years by allowing undocumented people to enter and work in this Country. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of immigrants, it's just about money. It could have been stopped decades ago by putting employers in jail who hired undocumented people. What you have now is the result of a 40 year old program designed to provide below market rate labor to business and destroy private sector labor unions. People do not cross a border to come and visit our sunny beaches they come here for jobs. When the economy started to prosper a tiny bit in Mexico we destroyed their entire farming industry with NAFTA. It won't stop because it's still beneficial to big agra and business so quit deluding yourself,
If there was any will to stop this, all it would take is requiring the use of e-verify prospectively (to all new employees) with a prison sentence for employers who cheat the system or fail to use it and then offering legal status to immigrants who have been here over some period in time with a path to citizenship.
Of course what you say is true. Corporations certainly benefit from the illegal pool, but there is virtually no backlash whatsoever. I am not talking about government and big business. I am talking about the voting American citizens.
While the illegal immigrants and their supporters protest by the millions in the street, and put pressure on governmental officials for amnesty, the American citizen does nothing.
Where were the American citizens protesting that there jobs are being taken away by illegal immigrants, and those who have already been granted amnesty?
Where are the citizens protesting that e-verify is not enforced, or that illegal aliens and anchor babies benefiting from the dream act will take their place at their college of choice?
Where are the protests regarding the millions of dollars in social, school, and health benefits that go to illegal aliens and anchor babies?
The ethnicity of the illegal immigrants increases our tolerance, altruism, and sympathy, since we either want them to share in the American dream, or we do not want to seem racist.
I would personally be every bit as upset if the illegal immigrants were White, but I think American citizens would be far less tolerant and more angry if the illegal immigrants were White, and collectively would put more pressure on the government to enforce our laws.
Of course what you say is true. Corporations certainly benefit from the illegal pool, but there is virtually no backlash whatsoever. I am not talking about government and big business. I am talking about the voting American citizens.
While the illegal immigrants and their supporters protest by the millions in the street, and put pressure on governmental officials for amnesty, the American citizen does nothing.
Where were the American citizens protesting that there jobs are being taken away by illegal immigrants, and those who have already been granted amnesty?
Where are the citizens protesting that e-verify is not enforced, or that illegal aliens and anchor babies benefiting from the dream act will take their place at their college of choice?
Where are the protests regarding the millions of dollars in social, school, and health benefits that go to illegal aliens and anchor babies?
The ethnicity of the illegal immigrants increases our tolerance, altruism, and sympathy, since we either want them to share in the American dream, or we do not want to seem racist.
I would personally be every bit as upset if the illegal immigrants were White, but I think American citizens would be far less tolerant and more angry if the illegal immigrants were White, and collectively would put more pressure on the government to enforce our laws.
Waddaya mean, where are the protests? They're on am radio every day.
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