the "yes means yes" law (fence, estimated)

[MItoBH]

Originally Posted by Bulldogdad

Liberal lunacy at it's finest on display again.

I'm a Green supporter, but otherwise, I agree with this sentiment. This yes thing is ridiculous.

the way I was raised, I say 'No motherf----', I don't need this yes means yes crap.

[cephalopede]

I'm just going to leave this here. This is the sort of consent everyone should be operating under.

Crystal Clear Consent - Pharyngula Wiki

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

I'm just going to leave this here. This is the sort of consent everyone should be operating under.

Crystal Clear Consent - Pharyngula Wiki

Did you know that looking at a women's boobs when she wears a low cut shirt is rape too?

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

Did you know that looking at a women's boobs when she wears a low cut shirt is rape too?

Did you know that throwing around straw man arguments makes your own awful position look even weaker?

Nowhere in this "yes means yes" law and nowhere in CCC does it say anything about looking at another person.

I'm sorry you're so angry over being made to feel guilty for leering at people and/or not being able to have sex with drunk people that you feel you need to make things up to defend yourself.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

Did you know that throwing around straw man arguments makes your own awful position look even weaker?

Nowhere in this "yes means yes" law and nowhere in CCC does it say anything about looking at another person.

I'm sorry you're so angry over being made to feel guilty for leering at people and/or not being able to have sex with drunk people that you feel you need to make things up to defend yourself.

I'm so tired of illogical feminists like you.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

I'm so tired of illogical feminists like you.

Because pointing out that nowhere in the topic we're discussing is looking at a person considered rape is highly illogical, of course.

I'm tired of living in a culture that protects rapists and blames victims for their assaults, but no, dealing with "illogical feminists" is probably much worse.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

Because pointing out that nowhere in the topic we're discussing is looking at a person considered rape is highly illogical, of course.

I'm tired of living in a culture that protects rapists and blames victims for their assaults, but no, dealing with "illogical feminists" is probably much worse.

I have heard feminists claim that looking at someone is a form of rape. I was making a joke, it wasn't directly related to what you posted.

1) If two people are naked and fondling each other, consent is implied. If one party doesn't like something, it is their responsibility to say something, if they don't speak up, no rape has occurred. It really isn't that hard.

2) Drunk people that are conscious are responsible for their actions. If two drunk people have sex or one sober person and one drunk person have sex, that isn't rape.

3) The trauma that true violent rape victims go through is absolutely terrible, by equating consentual drunk sex or someone not speaking up to rape is disgusting and hurts true victims of rape by taking away funding and resources for them and trivializing what happened to them.

4) Laws like this that make someone guilty until proven innocent are unconstitutional and go against everything are nation is based on.

5) Men have it significantly worse than women in America now, we need to stop promoting legislation that just makes this worse.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

consent is implied.

Crystal Clear Consent:
No doubts as to whether consent was obtained.
No guesses as to whether consent was obtained.
No assumptions as to whether consent was obtained.
No doubt as to whether any partner was capable of giving consent at the time.

2) Drunk people that are conscious are responsible for their actions. If two drunk people have sex or one sober person and one drunk person have sex, that isn't rape.

Crystal Clear Consent:
No doubt as to whether any partner was capable of giving consent at the time.

3) The trauma that true violent rape victims go through is absolutely terrible, by equating consentual drunk sex or someone not speaking up to rape is disgusting and hurts true victims of rape by taking away funding and resources for them and trivializing what happened to them.

I reserve the right to say all of this is absolute BS until you find some solid evidence to prove otherwise.

That you're willing to separate "drunk" rape and "violent" rape as if they are different creatures puts you dangerously close to "legitmate rape" territory, so unless you're Representative Todd Akin or one of his ilk, you might want to back off on that. People are occasionally grabbed by a random stranger in an alley and raped. More often a person is raped by a person they know and alcohol is often involved. Neither survivor's rape is somehow more valid than the other, and it's disgusting to suggest so.

4) Laws like this that make someone guilty until proven innocent are unconstitutional and go against everything are nation is based on.

Read the first part of my previous response.

5) Men have it significantly worse than women in America now, we need to stop promoting legislation that just makes this worse.

As a man: ahahaha, no. Just no.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

Crystal Clear Consent:
No doubts as to whether consent was obtained.
No guesses as to whether consent was obtained.
No assumptions as to whether consent was obtained.
No doubt as to whether any partner was capable of giving consent at the time.

I think this crystal clear consent thing is complete bs and I don't agree with what it says.

Crystal Clear Consent:
No doubt as to whether any partner was capable of giving consent at the time.

Once again I disagree with it so I don't know how posting that is doing anything. I reject your premises.

I reserve the right to say all of this is absolute BS until you find some solid evidence to prove otherwise.

It is basic arithmetic and algebra. If you have x dollars/resources and y people that need it than each person gets x/y dollars/resources. If y increases because people who don't deserve the resources are getting them then x/y for the people that need them goes down.

That you're willing to separate "drunk" rape and "violent" rape as if they are different creatures puts you dangerously close to "legitmate rape" territory,

Drunk sex isn't rape unless one party is unconscious. So it isn't even rape to begin with.

so unless you're Representative Todd Akin or one of his ilk, you might want to back off on that.

That's a straw man.

People are occasionally grabbed by a random stranger in an alley and raped. More often a person is raped by a person they know and alcohol is often involved.

Unless they are unconsious or are explicitly saying "no" or "stop" it isn't rape. So stop using the term rape to mean anyone who has sex with someone who has been drinking. If that was the case then nearly every adult in this country is a rapist and a rape victim.

Neither survivor's rape is somehow more valid than the other, and it's disgusting to suggest so.

You don't die from rape alone, so survivor is a stupid, overused and emotional term. A violent rape is infinitely more valid than a girl who went out got drunk and slept with someone, then regretted it when she was sober, that isn't valid in the slightest.

As a man: ahahaha, no. Just no.

Some examples:

1) Men have zero reproductive rights.
2) Much higher incarceration rate.
3) Longer prison term length served for a crime.
4) Much higher suicide rate
5) Higher homocide rate
6) Consistant unfairness in family courts
7) Much higher injuries and death rate
8) Much, much higher homeless rate
9) Lower lifespan
10) Men are forced to register for the draft.
11) Women can't even be in infantry
12) Much higher war injury and fatality rate
13) Less male college students
14) Harder, grosser jobs (have you ever seen a female plumber? Have you ever heard a feminist complain about why aren't there more female plumbers, dump workers or construction workers?)
15) Men have it worse with dating.
16) Men are expected to put women and children first
17) Men are seen as disposable
18) Male circumcision is fine, female circumcision is terrible (Not talking about clitoridectomy)

The wage gap doesn't exist. There is no law that is worse for women than men. In many other countries (specifically Muslim) women have it worse than men, but not here.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

I think this crystal clear consent thing is complete bs and I don't agree with what it says. Once again I disagree with it so I don't know how posting that is doing anything. I reject your premises.

You reject the idea that consent should be freely and clearly given, where neither party involved has any doubt about the consent, or their partner's ability to consent.

Gosh, I hate to quote the same website again, but.

First of all: Understand that if you go forward with initiating sexual activity not knowing if consent exists, you may or may not be raping someone, but you have proved beyond a shadow of doubt that you are willing to rape someone. Black areas make you a rapist, grey areas make you willing to rape.

If you (both the specific and generic) aren't concerned with obtaining clear consent from your partners, don't have sex.