How far south in the Central Valley can you claim NorCal? (San Francisco: zip codes, centers)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

There's a spot in the middle of Hwy 99 between Fresno and Madera where there is a palm tree and a pine tree planted side by side. The palm is on the south, the pine on the north. Some kind of myth has grown up around it saying that's the dividing line between NorCal and SoCal.

A Geographer's Scrapbook: Where the Palm Meets the Pine

I noticed it for years as we'd drive to Fresno and thought it odd, but Huell Howser finally did a little piece on it during one of his California's Gold episodes.

You see odd things like that in San Diego all the time. A palm next to a pine next to a eucalyptus.

[Adriatica]

The exact geographical center of California is near North Fork. Bonus points if you know where that is without looking it up. There's a little marker right at the spot.

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by Adriatica

The exact geographical center of California is near North Fork. Bonus points if you know where that is without looking it up. There's a little marker right at the spot.

I did not know, but I did look it up, interesting trivia. Thanks.

[Fiddlehead]

I would have no problem extending NorCal to Modesto, but that seems more cultural than geographical. Folks commute from Modesto to the Bay Area, and for that matter, from Bakersfield to LA area, but I personally don't think that changes the basic geography.

In my years of touring all around California, in my youth, I definitely noted importance differences in climate, vegetation, agriculture and the like from the Central Coast down to S. California, and the Central Valley seemed different again. One could make many potential maps, depending upon the criteria you prefer, but generally, the appeal of California as a whole is from kaleidoscope of climates, ecosystems, and cultures across the state. I don't think being a native is necessary to see it. A tourist on the first drive through will start to experience it. It is self-evident, and very cool.

My general beef with the state is that the towns are typically either dumpy and sprawling or gentrified and horrifically overpriced relative to wages, with little middle ground. The geography is amazing, but it is hard to find a cost-effective niche in the state, unless you were "in" before about 1990 or so.

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Thank you! The Bay Area and Sacramento is, have and will always be Northern California, whether the far northern separatists like it or not.

"Far northern separatists"…LOL! Is that how you see all the folks who live in that huge northernmost third of the state that most 'norcal natives' from anal-retentive "Frisco" (and parts south) seldom even venture thru?!!

"Pack the car honey, we're visiting the state of Jefferson this weekend!"

[TheDragonslayer]

Originally Posted by mateo45

"Far northern separatists"…LOL! Is that how you see all the folks who live in that huge northernmost third of the state that most 'norcal natives' from anal-retentive "Frisco" (and parts south) seldom even venture thru?!!

"Pack the car honey, we're visiting the state of Jefferson this weekend!"

I grew up in the Bay Area/Central Valley and I never thought of San Francisco as north or northern California. Now I live up in Far northern California and think of it as the true Northern California, it takes a good five hour drive to get from Eureka to San Francisco. Our economy, ecology, geography and people are much different, enough so that I can tell those that are imports from those that are native to here from the way they speak. San Francisco is nearly 400 miles from the Oregon border. If one breaks California into three parts, each about 325 miles wide, San Francisco would be on the northern end of the central section with Santa Rosa being on the south end of the northern section. Most of my family lives in the bay area but for a nephew who lives in Bakersfield and he is the only one that has ventured up here to Humboldt county, Trinity county and Shasta county.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer

I grew up in the Bay Area/Central Valley and I never thought of San Francisco as north or northern California. Now I live up in Far northern California and think of it as the true Northern California, it takes a good five hour drive to get from Eureka to San Francisco. Our economy, ecology, geography and people are much different, enough so that I can tell those that are imports from those that are native to here from the way they speak. San Francisco is nearly 400 miles from the Oregon border. If one breaks California into three parts, each about 325 miles wide, San Francisco would be on the northern end of the central section with Santa Rosa being on the south end of the northern section. Most of my family lives in the bay area but for a nephew who lives in Bakersfield and he is the only one that has ventured up here to Humboldt county, Trinity county and Shasta county.

Then you are a rare bird if you have Bay Area/Central Valley roots because I've never heard the Bay Area called anything but Northern California, decades ago up until now.

Sacramento is even further north than the Bay Area, and the northern and north-eastern burbs of Sacramento are still further north. Some of those Sacramento burbs are not even in the Central Valley.

I'm watching the Sacramento news as I type and it's "Northern California this, Northern California that" with in-depth stories as far south as Modesto with reference to Northern California regarding practically every news story and the commercials are all "Northern California, this Northern California that" in reference to businesses in Sacramento.

[Another Place]

Wow...what a great thread and a lot of interesting insight. I myself grew up in Fresno and I never considered calling it the DMZ. I always referred to it as, "The Land That Time Forgot." In those counties, Kern, Kings, Tulare, Fresno and Madera the people behave as if they threw away all the calendars and it's still 1950. And most of them believe it's still 1930's deep Mississippi and Alabama - if you know what I mean.

If you to Wiki and research North and South California it gives you one explanation. The insurance companies have another idea as to where the actual line is. I will tell you this, the people are not all the same throughout California.

Oh, I almost forgot...all you people who live in S.F. FRISCO...FRISCO...FRISCO!!!

[Count David]

I believe Disneyland used to consider Southern California to be zip codes 90000-93599.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer

I grew up in the Bay Area/Central Valley and I never thought of San Francisco as north or northern California. Now I live up in Far northern California and think of it as the true Northern California, it takes a good five hour drive to get from Eureka to San Francisco. Our economy, ecology, geography and people are much different, enough so that I can tell those that are imports from those that are native to here from the way they speak. San Francisco is nearly 400 miles from the Oregon border. If one breaks California into three parts, each about 325 miles wide, San Francisco would be on the northern end of the central section with Santa Rosa being on the south end of the northern section. Most of my family lives in the bay area but for a nephew who lives in Bakersfield and he is the only one that has ventured up here to Humboldt county, Trinity county and Shasta county.

This morning, Sacramento news story reported on "a Southern California city" - the city was Bakersfield.

For all you coastal folks who insist on referring to us, as "the Central Valley", note we are the North and South too.

Average Annual inches of Rain:
The Sacramento Valley = Northern Central Valley. Redding=33 inches, Sacramento=20 inches

The San Joaquin Valley = Southern Central Valley. Fresno=11 inches, Bakersfield=6 inches

In fact we even divide the The Sacramento Valley into the Northern and Southern with Redding, down to Chico as the Northern Sacramento Valley and Sacramento, down to Galt being in the Southern Sacramento Valley.

When we talk about Stockton and Modesto we call it the Northern San Joaquin Valley.