Santa Barbara, Santa Maria or San Luis Obispo? (Lompoc, Arroyo Grande: living in, gangs)

[CalBerkeley2002]

I realize the thread is about the differences between the three towns. What I'm saying is that people shouldn't use the racial composition of a city as a negative or positive attribute of that respective city. It is equally inappropriate to say "Atlanta is nice but it is a black city" as it is to say "Laguna Beach is nice but it is largely white", etc. Either way, it rubs me the wrong way. Thanks for chiming in Westward, next time let greatbasin offer his own reply.

[Woof]

OOOps, didn't notice that this thread has 3 pages, I was responding to something in the first page!

[overrestored]

I have lived in SB, Montecito, and SLO. Not Santa Maria...

Slo has a population of approx 45k people... of which approx 20,000 are students. If you visit SLO during the summer you will see a slightly different place than during the school year. There is an energy that the students bring. It is positive usually as it adds vibrancy and the nightlife is more decorative and the bands are better... but it can be negative if you live near a college "party house".

The income stats you read on SLO are because of the students not earning much. SLO's downtown used to have an average value of around 195k... back in the 1990's. Thus a lot of the downtown houses made a lot of sense for rental landlords to convert to student housing. These same landlords never really do anything to these properties... so they look crappy. Over the last 7 years or so the values have gone to 700 plus downtown on average. Only about 5% of the houses sell per year at best... so very slowly the crappy student rental houses are going away and being replaced by owner occupied "equity immigrants" either retired or soon to be retired who temporarily house their college age kids in the houses they will retire to soon.

I have seen a large trend in homes being bought by young families in their thirties... along with their retirement age parents. These are usually R2 properties where the kids restore the front house and the parents build their retirement bungalow in the back... often over a garage. There are 4 of these set ups within about 3 blocks of me downtown.

With the loss of the rental properties downtown... the students seem to be migrating more into the neighborhood East of Santa Rosa and north of highway 101. The downside to the loss of rental properties and real estate price appreciation is that the interesting artistic types... who used to populate some of the scrappier places due to affordability issues... well they are slowly going away to the outlying areas or entirely out of the area.

Ever so slowly all the old houses are being restored. The yards of the rental properties are still all brown... and until these owners die... these properties will look crappy. But the prices are such that when these landlords pass on... their kids will opt to sell the scrappy old houses and some new owner will fix it up. This has happened to over 40% of the houses on my block in the last 7 years.

The new people are often early retirees... but only about 50% of the time. Usually they are not really retirees... as they often find local jobs in something that interests them... they don't need real money as these jobs are sort of second careers to supplement their retirement income.

Cal Poly I would say is the main employer... and there are a ton of well educated and interesting people that work there. They provide the town with an interesting dialog at the coffee shops and cafe's. Yes there are a lot of tourist from the central valley... and they do own a lot of second homes... but these are primarily in Cayucos, Cambria and Pismo I would say. Slo itself doesn't seem to have a lot of second home market.

The town of slo has lost a lot of it's local businesses to chains in the downtown area... but there is still a bright local flavour amongst those local businesses that have been able to compete successfully. I miss the old town... but I also can see that a lot of younger people are glad that there are more contemporary shops here now. (and I did buy a chair at Pottery Barn)



Santa Barbara is fantastically beautiful place. The level of gardens and architecture is very high. It is a city of haves and have nots though. It is much farther along than SLO in losing it's artistic types... and also much farther along in losing its downtown to chain stores. But the quality of the downtown is amazing architecturally. There is a gang problem if you belong to a gang... but if you are not a gang member this is no issue... all you notice is the graffiti. But there is a full time staff of graffiti removers so you really don't get that much of a chance to see it.

The speed of life in SB is faster than in SLO... Which has plusses and minusses. There are fantastic restaurants. The Homeless situation seems to be exacerbated by the fact that there are about 10 million dollars in Homeless shelters carefully managed by well meaning charities... within blocks of State st.

It is very convenient to Los Angeles... a one day in and out trip. whereas to drive to LA from SLO seems like more of a two day thing.

The SB weather is unrivaled in the world.

Montecito is a very odd town. From the outside it appears to be a beaucolic enclave of wealth and peacefullness. and it is lovely. But there are leaf blowers going from dawn to dusk... and construction crews within earshot of most of the estates... hammering and drilling and playing music etc. The house in front of us was owned by an original owner... and then sold for 1.2 in 1996. A developer bought it and fixed it up...and resold it in 1998 having never lived in it. the next buyer was also a developer who bought it for 2.5 and proceeded to re-fix it up and install a renter for a year... then re-sell it for 3 something... then next guy... another developer tore it down and built a spanish mansion and resold it for 6... the next guy... another investor... never lived in it... and re-sold it for 8. So over the 6 years the house was really only lived in for a little while by an actual familiy... who rented it... but otherwise was a construction site. This sort of thing is true all over town.

If you live above Mountain Drive there are tiny flies... not really biters... but they annoy the crap out of you when you are outside. Deerflies I think.

Something that really took me by surprise in Montecito was the burglary and robbery issues. Within a block of us there was an armed robbery with automatic weapons... where the couple was tied up and robbed. There are many fantastically wealthy people there and as such they are targets to organized professional criminals. This is not talked about too much though. Some neighbors mentioned having two safes.... one with about 10k cash and some jewels... to let the burglars find... and then another with the real valuables in it in a very safe spot. Many new homes include a "Safe Room" for the occcupants... which is highly fortified against intruders and meant as a safe room for the occupants to hide in. We came home one night... and there were two pickup trucks in our driveway... with four guys wandering around the house at about 9 pm... we left and called the sheriff... but the fact that we drove up scared them off... but I was too scared to confront them with just my wife and myself.

Everyone in Montecito is "someone"... either the head of a corporation... or a hollywood type... or an internationally known author etc. SO the town is full of "alpha types"... where they are used to getting things done and used to doing it NOW. The way strikes you is at intersections while driving.. where people barge... or at Trader Joes etc... where everyone seems to have a me first attitude.

I would say that it is becoming a town of 100 million plus net worth... not simply millionaires.

Many of the houses in Montecito are surrounded by walls and I don't see neighbors meeting each other over the fence like they do in SB and in SLO. There really is no neighborly activities other than grand parties and social dinner sorts of get togethers at the various clubs. It is all a very social page kind of atmosphere. When you go to Pierre Lafond's for a sandwich... you are very likely to run into a hollywood superstar. everyone tries very hard not to notice them.

A nice thing about Montecito is the old timers. They are all very graceful and pleasant. I really loved them. some of the wealthiest folks there drive old cars and show up at the pharmacy to order an egg salad sandwich for lunch with friends. They would invite me in for tea... just having met them while on a walk. Amazing.

Montecito is probably one of the top 5 most beautiful places on the earth to live though... all in all. The scenery is just spectacular... and the homes are amazing. I guess it is just that I am not used to such spectacular wealth and the types of people who are that wealthy. I can't relate to it. I don't like big Mercedes cars or diamonds or 25,000 dollar watches.

Please forgive my negative comments on Montecito...I think I am biased by my own personal experiences.

I don't know much about Santa Maria... I do agree that the big mall in the middle... which took out much of the old town decades ago... was a big mistake. I think that other posters are correct when they say that the town is trying very hard to re-invent itself. I think that in the years that come Santa Maria will see the biggest turnaround of the three cities we are discussing.

The Old town of Orcutt seems to be having a mini revival... and there is a great coffee bar there called the Loading Dock.... there is also a cafe winery restaurant I can't remember the name of ... but the food was great. People seem to always bag on Santa Maria... and yes there is a large latino population... but there is warm and casual friendly atmosphere if you actually get into a house rather than just drive through on the main drag. SM is not about what you have or what you drive... it is family people, kids... etc.

I wouldn't personally live there because I enjoy downtown life and there just isn't any downtown there. But to be honest I don't really know much about life there so I will keep my comments short.

Each of the cities has many qualities that attract a different sort... so I think that your choices on where to live should be based on what makes you happy.

We were lucky... we bought in Santa Barbara in the early 1990's... and then traded up to montecito... and then were able to retire on the profit from that house sale to San Luis Obispo... where we are very happy... and probably represent alot of what the old San Luis Locals hate... another incoming retiree. A local Economist from SB called San Luis Obispo... a "wealthy geriatric Ghetto" funny... but becoming accurate save the student population.

So yes... Slo is becoming wealthy and this drives out the families to a degree... and some of the artists... which is really sad. But I don't know how to resolve it because the city coucil seems hell bent on not allowing any new affordable housing to be built.

I love it here though... am I evil? I don't know.

[eekwine]

"Santa Barbara is fantastically beautiful place. The level of gardens and architecture is very high. It is a city of haves and have nots though. It is much farther along than SLO in losing it's artistic types..."

This is all true. There is much, artistically speaking, for kids, but SB is not a place where artists can survive easily anymore. This was not always the case.

"There is a gang problem if you belong to a gang... but if you are not a gang member this is no issue... all you notice is the graffiti. But there is a full time staff of graffiti removers so you really don't get that much of a chance to see it."

This is not true. The gangs are a problem for the kids who attend the public secondary schools. There is a huge drug problem in SB which may or may not be related to organized gangs.

"Montecito is a very odd town. From the outside it appears to be a beaucolic enclave of wealth and peacefullness. and it is lovely. But there are leaf blowers going from dawn to dusk... and construction crews within earshot of most of the estates... hammering and drilling and playing music etc."

I lived there for more than 20 years. It has changed beyond recognition.

"If you live above Mountain Drive there are tiny flies... not really biters... but they annoy the crap out of you when you are outside. Deerflies I think."

Deerflies are huge. The ones you describe are called noseeums. For that very reason. They have a short season.

"Everyone in Montecito is "someone"... either the head of a corporation... or a hollywood type... or an internationally known author etc. SO the town is full of "alpha types"... where they are used to getting things done and used to doing it NOW. The way strikes you is at intersections while driving.. where people barge... or at Trader Joes etc... where everyone seems to have a me first attitude."

Bingo. It is that alpha thing. It has poisoned a once beautiful town. Almost everyone I know who once lived there & some of them are big name stars, have moved away.

"A nice thing about Montecito is the old timers. They are all very graceful and pleasant. I really loved them. some of the wealthiest folks there drive old cars and show up at the pharmacy to order an egg salad sandwich for lunch with friends. They would invite me in for tea... just having met them while on a walk. Amazing."

Yes. They are a vanishing breed however. One of my favorite old timers was a retired forest ranger. He lived in a small wood cabin type home on a couple of acres where I kept my horse. I am sure that property has a monster house on it now.

"Please forgive my negative comments on Montecito...I think I am biased by my own personal experiences."

I'm glad you commented. I feel fortunate to have experienced the town when it was a lovely place to live. Maybe for some it still is.

[fairweathergolfer]

overrestored and eekwine,

Thank you both so much for your posts and comments. Overrestored--What an extensive summary of each place and eekwine your follow up was helpful as well. Are these noseeums in the Riveria, Mission Canyon, and 93110, 93111 (North Goleta) areas? I can't stand bugs and stuff like that. I thought barring spiders etc that we were annoying bug free here in Southern California. Will I need to wear a plastic body bag at night when I come out of my spa and sit by my outside fireplace --LOL.?

Sad very sad about the Montecito homes. To me all homes have a type of soul and to hear so many are just empty places that are business transactions made me sad. I live in areas and visit that are alpha type hangs and I am surprised at the attitude you described overrestored. Usually the gathering of so many alphas put these people on their best behavior in case someone sees them such as a fellow celeb or CEO etc (except where I live in LA on the roadways! ). Or one would overhear the following conversation,

"Hey get out of my way! Don't you know who I am?"

"You get out of my way! Don't you know who I am?"

"Oh, Hi John."

"Hey Janice."

Then of course they would both go home and it would be the talk over dinner and then spread around town over how so-and-so was acting as one who is poorly bred--too big for their britches as we used to say. (Who cares if they are talking about Oprah or Condi Rice or Tom Cruise or Bill Gates). You get the picture. Atleast the people I am around are more like the old moneyed Montecito you spoke about getting the sandwiches and wanting to have tea and visit. That don't want to live only among the wealthy (even though they basically do comparitely) but they like the mixture of the gentleman down the road that used to work for the forest service. This saddens me. Money is just that. A means to an end. Nothing more. I love the old school folks that realize this. That a community is a place where one has a connection to their home and to their neighbors, even if it is a second or third home.

I would like to see some of the Santa Barbarans' generous money go to artists and to nurture this sort of community there. This is where my efforts will go when I move there soon. A wealthy community without new ideas and fresh voices is deadening. I want to see that place become a mecca for the nurturing of artists (rich, poor, middle class). Instead of LA maybe artist types can drive to Santa Barbara instead. If I have my way this is how it will be one day. Hopefully that will come to fruition in time.

[eekwine]

[quote=fairweathergolfer;1543205] Are these noseeums in the Riveria, Mission Canyon, and 93110, 93111 (North Goleta) areas?

probably not so much but I think the higher the elevation, the more the possibility of noseems... SB is not bug free because where there are gardens there are bugs... but it probably depends on the area & your type of house... i would say bugs are the least of sb's problems though!

"I live in areas and visit that are alpha type hangs and I am surprised at the attitude you described overrestored. Usually the gathering of so many alphas put these people on their best behavior in case someone sees them such as a fellow celeb or CEO etc (except where I live in LA on the roadways! ). "

it is most noticeable on the roadways... there have been many people killed crossing the street or walking in montecitio if you can believe it!

" That a community is a place where one has a connection to their home and to their neighbors, even if it is a second or third home. "

I think what has happened in Montecito & also SB is something that may have happened in many areas... the property values went through the roof so people cashed out when their kids grew up & moved elsewhere... it is sad in some ways because most of the people (including me) who once lived there & raised our kids there are now scattered about elsewhere so we rarely run into each other like we might if we still all lived in the same town...

"I would like to see some of the Santa Barbarans' generous money go to artists and to nurture this sort of community there. This is where my efforts will go when I move there soon."


You will fit in well & make friends there if this is something that motivates you. A huge part of the social fabric in SB revolves around nonprofit work & events (there are 1,000 plus nonprofits in SB). The thing that makes it hard for artists (by this i mean all of the arts including writers & musicians etc) to live & work in SB is the expensive housing market.

[overrestored]

I didn't notice the Deerflies on the Riviera when we lived there for three years. I never noticed Noseeums in either place. I noticed more deer on the riviera than in Montecito though... funny. They use the Barrancas (canyons) as deer highways. They used to sleep on our lawn just below APS.

Much of the Montecito attitude actually comes from outsiders I would say. When downtown most of the folks you see acting stuffy... are from out of the area and just visiting. I always found it odd... when someone would pull up to the upper village... and the only people there were all in Mercedes or BMW's or whatnot... all multi millionaires.... and the new guy... most likely from Hollywood would be driving an Aston Martin or something... and he would beep his car alarm right there at Pierre's... ... who is gonna rob his car. He may be a millionaire young cool guy actor... but he is among people way over his head and doesn't even know it. These out of towners are often the ones creating the "me first" attitude. If you want to visit Montecito... go on a weekday... not on the weekend when LA is visiting and staying at the San Ysidro Ranch or the Biltmore.

As a complete aside... I have discovered that if I look for cafes with lots of bicycles in front of them... I usually have found one of the best places. These are the places to check out. Towns with lots of people riding bikes are often very cool places... and cafes with bikes in front mean good food and locals.

I would choose SB over Montecito now if I had to leave SLO and live down there. But choose your neighborhood carefully. there are BIG differences between them.

I think a lot of Americans... those that watch television a lot anyway... are led to believe that a big house in the best zipcode is something to aspire to. ... and that beauty and youth will make them happy. We are programmed by the media and marketting to believe this...
But it is not true. Unfortunately... we waste our lives aspiring to these things.

but IT doesn't matter one whit.

What will make you happier is a town where you can own a home outright with no mortgage... I don't care if it is only 500 square feet... a town with smart friendly people who could care less what car you drive and how beautiful you are. That is far better than a mortgage and a Ferrari in SB.

Go find that place now. That place is paradise.

California is so damn expensive... many folks won't find paradise here... but there are many paradises... you just need to find a place where you can live below your means amongst interesting people and things to do.

[goatherder]

I do not know if it is true to this day but I know that in very recent times there were families living in monteceto that were descended from old presidio soldiers who were given title to land for payment back in the old Californio days. Spanish town it was called and there are still houses that claim "Juaquin Murieta drank here" and such. When I was young (so long ago) It was a bit of a shock to visit the houses of friends and find myself in a grand room that could hold my (not small) house in it and deal with people who owned huge estates with grand houses and who had callused hands from the work they did on these lands and drove unpretentious cars and dressed plain. Folks like that are still there but a lot of pretentious pratts also from hollyweird. I sure hope this reads ok tomorrow because I have had a few tonight.

[LDDiamondGirl]

Well, that's what this board is all about. Read what someone has to say and get that "aha" moment from it.

If what I had to say about SLO leads you to believe it's for you, I am happy to oblige, whether it's through my negativity, or not. Why, if I just search a little deeper, and listen a little harder, I usually find that the negativity about rich people, Santa Barbara snobbery, uppity restaurants, expensive and inflated shopping prices, make me realize that a place like that is probably just where I want to be because if I really consider the source of the comments, most of the time they are coming from people who are not at all like I am.

So, best of luck......many people consider SLO County paradise.

[eekwine]

I lived for a few years in what used to be called spanish town in montecito

Originally Posted by goatherder

I do not know if it is true to this day but I know that in very recent times there were families living in monteceto that were descended from old presidio soldiers who were given title to land for payment back in the old Californio days. Spanish town it was called and there are still houses that claim "Juaquin Murieta drank here" and such. When I was young (so long ago)
.