Calif. State Public Employee Unions Pensions in Jeopardy (Sacramento, Stockton: lawyers, job openings)

[V8 Vega]

LA Times March 17
The judge in the Stockton bankrupcy case said Stockton could legally cut workers retirements.
In San Bernardino's bankrupcy case --- the pension fund faces a new legal challenge from two companies owed 50 million. The companies say its illegal for the city to continue to pay CalIPERS to fund workers pensions while they get nothing.
This is really good news for taxpayers.

[2sleepy]

Really good news huh? I guess neither Stockton or San Bernardino thinks it's such a great idea because both will honor their PERS obligation and not cut pensions:
Stockton
Judge Says Cities in Bankruptcy May Reject Pension contracts - WSJ

City lawyers argued that the Stockton would have to pay a $1.6 billion termination fee and that city workers would quickly find other jobs once the pension contract ends. "The city cannot impair pensions and continue to function as a city," Marc Levinson, the city's bankruptcy lawyer, said at Wednesday's hearing.

San Bernardino
San Bernardino defends CalPERS payment plan in bankruptcy | The Sacramento Bee The Sacramento Bee

Cutting payments to CalPERS would trigger substantial reductions in pension payments to current and future retirees. That could drive many municipal employees to take jobs elsewhere. “You can’t have a workforce without pensions,” Saenz said.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Cutting payments to CalPERS would trigger substantial reductions in pension payments to current and future retirees. That could drive many municipal employees to take jobs elsewhere. “You can’t have a workforce without pensions,” Saenz said.

What jobs?

Try and find one if you were an ex city worker.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

What jobs?

Try and find one if you were an ex city worker.

City workers generally have very little problem finding work in another City or County, I would suggest you check California government job listings before you make a statement like that

[shooting4life]

I support keeping the pensions whole. Now if the cities want to negotiate new terms with current employees and all the challenges that comes with that then fine. But pensions are part of the conpensation package of an employee and paying labor costs comes before paying other debt. Plus you cannot renegotiate with retirees like you can with current Union employees.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

I support keeping the pensions whole. Now if the cities want to negotiate new terms with current employees and all the challenges that comes with that then fine. But pensions are part of the conpensation package of an employee and paying labor costs comes before paying other debt. Plus you cannot renegotiate with retirees like you can with current Union employees.

I agree completely, but cities have learned that most retirees are not represented by their former union so they have become easy prey- look at Vallejo's bankruptcy for example

[V8 Vega]

So people who make 1/4 of what public employee union members make paying for their lavish life is fine with you.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

City workers generally have very little problem finding work in another City or County, I would suggest you check California government job listings before you make a statement like that

Uh, then those who would have normally taken them will be out of work.

I bet if those cities who can change the pension plans announced job openings there would be plenty of people to take them.

I do believe there are a lot of people looking for work who would be happy to have such jobs. CA does not have full employment yet does it? No one looking for work and lots of jobs going unfilled? How many people work today with NO hope of a pension and ... make the same or less than Gov't workers do now?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Uh, then those who would have normally taken them will be out of work.

I bet if those cities who can change the pension plans announced job openings there would be plenty of people to take them.

I do believe there are a lot of people looking for work who would be happy to have such jobs. CA does not have full employment yet does it? No one looking for work and lots of jobs going unfilled? How many people work today with NO hope of a pension and ... make the same or less than Gov't workers do now?

I bet you are wrong. Cities who have cut pensions and benefits for new employees are having a tough time filling positions that require specific experience, i.e. Police Officer, Dispatcher, Firefighter. Even if the cuts aren't significant job applicants view it as a warning sign that the City might find itself in financial trouble again and come after current employees benefits. Training a Police Officer or Firefighter is a lengthy and expensive process, if Cities have to hire rookies and train them themselves, the money they are saving with benefit cuts will likely be eaten up by having to train these folks.

The State of California is hiring 7,000 prison guards this year, those are jobs that don't require law enforcement experience and get the same benefits as a local police officer or CHP. Why would someone with law enforcement experience go to work for a City that has cut benefits when they can get a job with the prison system that offers a 3% per year retirement at age 50?

I'm sorry that so many people don't have pensions anymore, but you can blame the union busting that has gone on for the past 20 years for that. Once you don't have a union, the next thing to go is your pension and your other benefits.

[tikkasf]

Originally Posted by V8 Vega

So people who make 1/4 of what public employee union members make paying for their lavish life is fine with you.

I think you will find many do not have a "lavish" lifestyle. Certainly not compared to the Wall St crowd.....make a bunch of bad bets and other irresponsible financial/business decisions....and if you are one of the top executives you still walk away millions to fund a lavish retirement lifestyle...
There likely would be a lot less number individuals making "1/4" of what public employees make if not for so much of our manufacturing base being outsourced.