Fresno Struggles With $15 Min Wage (Los Angeles, Sacramento: lofts, attorney, home)

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Another thread full of brain-dead speculative opinions based on no factual failure parallels. In spite of evidence to the contrary from various other countries around the globe with minimum wages as high or higher than this proposal - where both corporate and small businesses remain profitable, unemployment remains low, standards of living and quality of life indexes exceed those of the US. Amazing.

Fresno isn't a strong metropolitan city. It's like comparing Somalia to an advanced space civilization.

[Dhult]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Unless labor is 100% of your total business costs it is mathematically impossible for your costs to double if the minimum wage does.

Are you doing this on purpose or is there really a disconnect between what is written and would is transmitted to the brain?

This is the quote

Nobody stated that. You had zero comprehension on that post. Of course one does. The playing field is shrinking and the only ones that can take the field is those that can absorb the added burdens of regulations and costs. That is if the people aren't willing to pay almost double shopping or eating with small business.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Exactly what costs of doing business are NOT passed on to the consumer? Since forever. That's the definition of business.

That's not a real answer nor a solution for the small business owner. This is a government imposed artificial attack on a small business owner. It is an increase in costs that is completely artificial; it is an extra cost to a small business because we as a society are forcing it upon him.

It would be like if the we raised the income tax on every working person 11% for the next 5 to 6 years and you had no say in the process. It would like if we forced people who are on fixed incomes to pay 11% more of their income to the gov't at the same time rents and other costs are going up. Do we not know that the small business has to deal with increased rental costs and a slew of other laws regulations that make it extremely expensive to survive.

For some families the small business is their only livelihood. So these families are taking a direct hit in how they earn their livelihoods. Why should they bother, why take all the extra risk when they could just go work for a large company. Why do we punish them? Why do we make it so hard for them to exist in our society. Why are we so insensitive and clueless to what it takes to run a small business, why don't we care.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Fresno isn't a strong metropolitan city. It's like comparing Somalia to an advanced space civilization.

And yet it has survived with the state's changing minimum wages along with the rest of the state since minimum wages became law.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Dhult

Are you doing this on purpose or is there really a disconnect between what is written and would is transmitted to the brain?

This is the quote

I dunno. Your post read to me as if you were suggesting prices would have to double to cover your 50% increase in the wages you pay your lowest paid employees. Which is nonsense, of course.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Another thread full of brain-dead speculative opinions based on no factual failure parallels. In spite of evidence to the contrary from various other countries around the globe with minimum wages as high or higher than this proposal - where both corporate and small businesses remain profitable, unemployment remains low, standards of living and quality of life indexes exceed those of the US. Amazing.

The view of the anti wage increasers is ALWAYS based on what they believe.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And yet it has survived with the state's changing minimum wages along with the rest of the state since minimum wages became law.

Back in the 20th century it used to have us manufacturing to shield it from the damaging effects of minimum wage Increases because there were more and better jobs back then. Nowadays it's only limping Around because there is only small adjustments

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

That's not a real answer nor a solution for the small business owner. This is a government imposed artificial attack on a small business owner. It is an increase in costs that is completely artificial; it is an extra cost to a small business because we as a society are forcing it upon him.

It would be like if the we raised the income tax on every working person 11% for the next 5 to 6 years and you had no say in the process. It would like if we forced people who are on fixed incomes to pay 11% more of their income to the gov't at the same time rents and other costs are going up. Do we not know that the small business has to deal with increased rental costs and a slew of other laws regulations that make it extremely expensive to survive.

For some families the small business is their only livelihood. So these families are taking a direct hit in how they earn their livelihoods. Why should they bother, why take all the extra risk when they could just go work for a large company. Why do we punish them? Why do we make it so hard for them to exist in our society. Why are we so insensitive and clueless to what it takes to run a small business, why don't we care.

You didn't answer my question. What costs of doing business aren't passed on to the consumer? That is the definition of business.

And every other of your protest points are nonsense.

There's nothing artificial about increasing labor costs anymore than any other costs.

If government and unions didn't force wage responsibility and similar, we'd still have children in sweat shops, no 40-hour week, no overtime, and women being paid less than men for the same work - oh wait!

It wouldn't be at all the same as raising income taxes, because the businesses have every free opportunity to raise prices, adjust labor use, increase product offerings, and control expenses and income in myriad other ways to compensate. As they have always done. Because that is the nature of business: constant change and adjustment to market conditions.

Why shouldn't businesses have to increase labor costs just as they pay increased costs for inventory, rent, utilities, etc.?

Small business-persons are free to work for corporations if they prefer. Truth is, they don't usually. It's a personality type. They are free to compete as always. There's nothing new going on here. I ran my own small business for over 35 years, competing with others in my field who all juggled our shops on similar terms.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Dhult

It's obvious you have never owned a small business that employees entry level jobs. As someone who has actually owned a family store that gave teens their first job and low skill workers, I state with a little authority, You are full of excrement and talking points and don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Not only does small business(such as specialty stores) have to compete with Walmart, Home Depot and Lowes (Family Hardware stores that are now completely dead) for inventory at much higher prices, We have even less of a profit margin trying to keep close to the same wages.

Of course they'll probably love it because it is going to force some closures. This fast food movement to give "living wage" is also a nightmare and I can sympathize with every small independent restaurant and burger place.

You're NOT suppose to make a living asking people if you want fries with that. These are jobs for kids and those just entering the work force, students and extra income for retires. It's not a job to raise a family on.

Yes it's terrible, not just for small business owners but also for the poor unskilled that work for them.
If those businesses close where will they work?
People say , "No problem...other businesses will want to open in their spot!"

Yes perhaps, but they will be the types of business that has higher skilled workers. Maybe a tech company, architecture firm, attorneys office, etc.
None of these places will hire someone that's work experience was as a burger flipper or cashier.

There is a lack of housing in cities like Los Angeles , so many of the closed businesses might be repurposed as housing...most likely for higher income or wealthy because that's what makes economic sense to build in a city like L.A

Business owners will likely look into opportunities out of state , Texas will become more attractive. Their minimum wage is currently $7.25 and they haven't passed any of these laws ...at least yet.

The entire apparel industry in Los Angeles is looking to move out of Downtown Los Angeles to El Paso ,TX
An economist and former Director of apparel giant Forever 21 has dubbed it "An Exodus"

People say no big deal ..it's JUST the apparel industry...yes..but it employs 30,000 people in Los Angeles.

Fresno will probably fair worse than L.A because there are less skilled workers in general.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Back in the 20th century it used to have us manufacturing to shield it from the damaging effects of minimum wage Increases because there were more and better jobs back then. Nowadays it's only limping Around because there is only small adjustments

Um yeah. And over the years I've lived in California, it has "limped" from a couple hundred thousand population to over a half million. Nearly 20% in just this new century.