Fresno Struggles With $15 Min Wage (to buy, closing, wages)

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

If government and unions didn't force wage responsibility and similar, we'd still have children in sweat shops, no 40-hour week, no overtime, and women being paid less than men for the same work - oh wait!

We solved those problems, we already have laws in place to protect child labor, require overtime and a 40-hour week, and we already have a minimum wage.

Now, We have to be careful and sensitive to the people who are actually paying the wages, the small businesses. We have give them a voice too, and we have to help them thrive in a way where they get to keep their profits so they have an incentive to keep going, creating, producing, and employing those who want to work at a minimum wage job.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

We solved those problems, we already have laws in place to protect child labor, require overtime and a 40-hour week, and we already have a minimum wage.

Yes. We solved them Except for equal pay for women, of course. That's coming too. Perhaps we should not address that so we don't hurt small businesses?

We solved those problems with government regulation because businesses wouldn't address them. And now government has to step in to address the problem of rising COL with stagnant wages that is driving people to more and more welfare - and crime, and homelessness, and hunger, etc. We have a minimum wage that is no longer reasonable for today's America.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

We solved those problems, we already have laws in place to protect child labor, require overtime and a 40-hour week, and we already have a minimum wage.

Now, We have to be careful and sensitive to the people who are actually paying the wages, the small businesses. We have give them a voice too, and we have to help them thrive in a way where they get to keep their profits so they have an incentive to keep going, creating, producing, and employing those who want to work at a minimum wage job.

Yes, starting and running a small business is an investment. If the business owner can no longer get a return on their investment from running a business then they will seek alternate investments.
That could include moving out of state , out of the country. Or perhaps putting their money into the stock market or into real estate.

Otherwise you are relying on business owners to almost act like charities. Even very liberal business owners are finding it tough to stomach these new increases.
No doubt it will reduce the number of places where lower income people will be able to work.
So it's a lose lose situation. Bad for business owners and bad for low skilled workers (the working poor).

[Bill the Butcher]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The claim was there is no historical precedent, I offered one and for some reason you decided it's irrelevant because it occurred in 1950?

Thank you for deciding things I have not decided.

[slo1318]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Exactly what costs of doing business are NOT passed on to the consumer? Since forever. That's the definition of business.

Right, thats the point. These things will happen:

Less employment on the lower end.

More automation of jobs.

Overall shift in wages across the board.

Higher consumer prices.

Artificially created inflation.

COL catches up with the new arbitrary min wage and the poor folk are in the same boat again.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Yes, starting and running a small business is an investment. If the business owner can no longer get a return on their investment from running a business then they will seek alternate investments.
That could include moving out of state , out of the country. Or perhaps putting their money into the stock market or into real estate.

Otherwise you are relying on business owners to almost act like charities. Even very liberal business owners are finding it tough to stomach these new increases.
No doubt it will reduce the number of places where lower income people will be able to work.
So it's a lose lose situation. Bad for business owners and bad for low skilled workers (the working poor).

Not a shred of evidence offered that this has happened before or will now. Very good as usual jm

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by slo1318

Right, thats the point. These things will happen:

Less employment on the lower end.

More automation of jobs.

Overall shift in wages across the board.

Higher consumer prices.

Artificially created inflation.

COL catches up with the new arbitrary min wage and the poor folk are in the same boat again.

More automation has always been the goal since the beginning of industrial age. It is accelerating regardless of minimum wage. Business people don't want employees at all if they can help it. Why would they?

There's nothing "artificial" about wage shifts or rising prices. They have been a part of business for 10,000 years.

"Poor folk" in other developed countries that have instituted higher minimum wages successfully are not in the same position they were in before. They are living improved lives and spending more money that feeds businesses.

It is more relevant to point out that the sequestration of wealth at the top of the chains is far more damaging that recirculation in the lower rungs.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Not a shred of evidence offered that this has happened before or will now. Very good as usual jm

We aren't at $15 yet. So no there isn't 'evidence' at $15hr..
But it's obvious what will happen. All of the things slo1318 mentioned.
And there is plenty plenty evidence that businesses have looked elsewhere for labor when costs or cost of doing business gets too high.
Have you heard of OUTSOURCING...or have you not heard of businesses moving out of state or out of the country??
Come on , a smart guy like you? You haven't heard of businesses moving before?
It's funny that you want to pretend like this has never happened before.
Like it's a big shocker to you that business would move out of an area if costs to operate become too high.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yes. We solved them Except for equal pay for women, of course. That's coming too. Perhaps we should not address that so we don't hurt small businesses?

We solved those problems with government regulation because businesses wouldn't address them. And now government has to step in to address the problem of rising COL with stagnant wages that is driving people to more and more welfare - and crime, and homelessness, and hunger, etc. We have a minimum wage that is no longer reasonable for today's America.

We should make everyone equal with government just like Fidel Castro did! Oh wait! He didn't make anyone equal. All he did was put the middle class into poverty and execute people. My mistake. Government can solve all our problems!

[jm1982]

Worked out well for Castro..
Fidel Castro lived like a king and was worth millions says former bodyguard | Daily Mail Online

and
North Korea's Kim Jong Un Buys More Luxury Goods Than His Father: UN Report