San Francisco rent raised 400% (renters, refinance, how much)

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Pretty much the same with me and property...

Buyer's Market and Seller's Market and so it goes...

Yours is a lot closer to gambling because of margin and the extreme capital requirements to even buy in

[jm1982]

It seems there are a lot of real estate naysayers saying that stocks are a better investment...yet at the same time complaining that they didn't buy property in the past...since they are looking at the big returns.
Now they are hoping for prices to nosedive...but even if they do , they will say it's not the right time to buy.

Or then they will say they can't afford real estate because they can't buy in San Francisco or in Manhattan, even though there are many thousands of markets across the country and world with a variety of prices.

When prices are cheap , they are suspect and say 'Well it can't be that great because it's so cheap!" Missing the opportunity.

You would of missed the opportunity in San Francisco during the times when it was grittier and not cool, missed the opportunity in Harlem, missed it in Echo Park in L.A and in many other areas.

People want to wait to buy in when a place is cool and trendy...but they want to pay the price from when the area was not that cool.

You would of said , "Who would by that crappy cheap house in Las Vegas or Phoenix?" back in 2009...places that went up 400% or more.
Or look at Oakland. Everyone was crying how long prices had gone during the crash ...no people are complaining they are getting priced out of Oakland.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by jm1982

It seems there are a lot of real estate naysayers saying that stocks are a better investment...yet at the same time complaining that they didn't buy property in the past...since they are looking at the big returns.
Now they are hoping for prices to nosedive...but even if they do , they will say it's not the right time to buy.

Or then they will say they can't afford real estate because they can't buy in San Francisco or in Manhattan, even though there are many thousands of markets across the country and world with a variety of prices.

When prices are cheap , they are suspect and say 'Well it can't be that great because it's so cheap!" Missing the opportunity.

You would of missed the opportunity in San Francisco during the times when it was grittier and not cool, missed the opportunity in Harlem, missed it in Echo Park in L.A and in many other areas.

People want to wait to buy in when a place is cool and trendy...but they want to pay the price from when the area was not that cool.

You would of said , "Who would by that crappy cheap house in Las Vegas or Phoenix?" back in 2009...places that went up 400% or more.
Or look at Oakland. Everyone was crying how long prices had gone during the crash ...no people are complaining they are getting priced out of Oakland.

Stocks have returns greater than real estate and I don't get a call at 4 in the morning from ibm to unclog their toilet. Also I've said multiple times I don't care how hip the Bay Area is. I hate hip actually but I'm bound here. Actually people are starting to complain about getting priced out of Oakland.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Stocks have returns greater than real estate and I don't get a call at 4 in the morning from ibm to unclog their toilet. Also I've said multiple times I don't care how hip the Bay Area is. I hate hip actually but I'm bound here. Actually people are starting to complain about getting priced out of Oakland.

That's what Wall Street wants people to think. Wall Street makes money when you buy stocks.
If you bought a stock and it doubled after 5 years you'd have double your money
but if you bought a property with 20% down you'd have 6 times your money.
It's a huge difference really

Let's say you had $20,000 to invest . Would you rather turn that into $40,000?
Or would you rather turn it into $120,000?...

Also with real estate you can force equity by improving a property and you have more control.
With a stock some bad news could happen and then you wake up and you have huge loses.

I bet even yourself you know or have heard of a lot of people that bought property years ago and are now making amazing money from it. Or made a huge profit.
Do you know anyone that did that with stocks? Probably not .

If you look at retirees a lot of their wealth is often in their house versus stocks.
That little house they bought with a small down payment . These same people also usually invest in their 401k.but it's usually much smaller than their equity in their home.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by jm1982

That's what Wall Street wants people to think. Wall Street makes money when you buy stocks.
If you bought a stock and it doubled after 5 years you'd have double your money
but if you bought a property with 20% down you'd have 6 times your money.
It's a huge difference really

Let's say you had $20,000 to invest . Would you rather turn that into $40,000?
Or would you rather turn it into $120,000?...

Also with real estate you can force equity by improving a property and you have more control.
With a stock some bad news could happen and then you wake up and you have huge loses.

I bet even yourself you know or have heard of a lot of people that bought property years ago and are now making amazing money from it. Or made a huge profit.
Do you know anyone that did that with stocks? Probably not .

If you look at retirees a lot of their wealth is often in their house versus stocks.
That little house they bought with a small down payment . These same people also usually invest in their 401k.but it's usually much smaller than their equity in their home.

Most people put 100 or so dollars a month in their 401k. If they put in say 2000 or so (easily achievable) they'd probably have near 5 million at retirement or could retire at 40. Good luck doing that with your house.

[Ultrarunner]

I've never lost money except with stocks... that's my story.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I've never lost money except with stocks... that's my story.

I've tripped and fallen on cement, all cement is out to get me.... That's my story . Does this also mean that you never lose money on food? Do you eat it, swallow it, poop it out and sell it for more? Your annecdotal examples get annoying after awhile.

[MDude25]

San Francisco needs GOP governance, the Liberals and Democrats have literally ruined that beautiful city and have turned it into a hyper-inflated city where everything costs too much.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

I've tripped and fallen on cement, all cement is out to get me.... That's my story . Does this also mean that you never lose money on food? Do you eat it, swallow it, poop it out and sell it for more? Your annecdotal examples get annoying after awhile.

Bless you and those that have realized their investment targets... really quite an accomplishment and one that has alluded me with stocks...

It is most likely due to my peasant farmer family background where the land is everything... the ancestors came here for a chance to farm land they own which was not possible for them across the sea...

Maybe with more life experience one can appreciate anecdotal experience... no shame for those that are too young or lacking wisdom that comes with experience.

I truly wish you well and hope everything goes your way except for the massive Real Estate Crash and the Devastation/Suffering that would bring to millions...

The market is cyclical but I can't ever recall hearing anyone wish for a disaster, civil disorder or collapse just to make a buck...

[bodyforlife99]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

Most people put 100 or so dollars a month in their 401k. If they put in say 2000 or so (easily achievable) they'd probably have near 5 million at retirement or could retire at 40. Good luck doing that with your house.

jm1982, why do you even waste your time with him and his faulty math (and keep in mind you're talking to a guy that lives at home, rent free with his parents...so he tends to be a little delusional). His analogy is absurd and as usual, he goes off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the comparison. If a couple had enough to put $24K into a 401K, then they could do it with a mortgage also so it's a non-issue and is a faulty comparison. You are paying rent or you are paying a mortgage. Initially your mortgage may be more but it catches up fairly quick as rent increases and then you have situations like today where people in their last 10-15 years of their mortgage are paying substantially less than the rent and therefore have more disposable income to save. And the ability to itemize more than makes up for any maintenance on the house. The only thing to compare here is your down payment. So what you're saying is exactly correct. With a 20% down you are leveraging 5x that money. And with the increases we've seen here over the last 20 years, there's no way you would have made more on the market. Stupid logic at its finest.