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True but these are not illegal acts at this time and do not involve criminal organizations, violence and murder. Drugs have and do,
Again I agree but the subject was illegal acts, in my post and specifically marijuana. The fact man does other stupid things, does not make the illegal buying of a drug and the repercussions of that, any better. Two (or more) wrongs do not make a right.
Cars, trucks, trains, planes, etc all pollute. I agree but as you note we are talking about illegal VS legal.
Again I do not disagree that legalization will remove to a great degree the actions that have been common when it was illegal. It is better legal than not.
What upsets people like Mutt (Who can never be wrong) is that in the past pot use was illegal, when they used it and, unless they grew it themselves, they were aiding and abetting criminals and contributing indirectly (and sometimes directly) to the violence. They do not like to admit they share any responsibility for what their actions were involved in; violence and death.
Thanks for staying in the conversation with your position that because something is illegal it is automatically more heinous than many things that are legal. No actual logical intellectual analysis required. Illegal = more bad. The fact that vastly greater harm is perpetrated on humanity by perfectly legal shenanigans conducted by various corporations and professions need not be weighed in equivalency.
That people support many corporate businesses through buying legal but grossly destructive products and services is meaningless to you, expat. Got that. It's legal! Legal is good!
The amount of nasty damages, real and ugly as it is, resulting from the cartels is minuscule by comparison. Chickenfeed. Exploitive mostly of people's weak, but optional, behaviors. Whereas the truly masterful exploiters, like Monsanto, DOW, Exxon, et al, have mastered the art of conditioning the total society into addiction to their destructive products.
But I digress. Back to your grave, righteously judgemental concerns that a bit of recreational pot is destroying our cultural fabric down to the bare threads.
Oh, and thanks for recognizing my infallibility. In that, you are correct.
I have a teenager and now they have easier access to it, it gives the impression it's ok because it's legal.
Yep. And few people seem to care about this.
"Washington state legalized adult marijuana use in 2012. Cerda’s researchers found that more Washington teens started getting stoned that year. They no longer believed the drug was dangerous.
Among eighth-graders, their “perception of harmfulness” dropped 14%. Among 10th-graders, it fell 16%. That’s eye-opening when compared with kids in other states where marijuana has not been legalized. In those states, perceptions of harm dipped only 5% to 7%.
In Washington, weed use increased by 2% among eighth-graders and 4% among 10th-graders. But in non-legal states, it actually decreased by about 1%."
"Washington state legalized adult marijuana use in 2012. Cerda’s researchers found that more Washington teens started getting stoned that year. They no longer believed the drug was dangerous.
Among eighth-graders, their “perception of harmfulness” dropped 14%. Among 10th-graders, it fell 16%. That’s eye-opening when compared with kids in other states where marijuana has not been legalized. In those states, perceptions of harm dipped only 5% to 7%.
In Washington, weed use increased by 2% among eighth-graders and 4% among 10th-graders. But in non-legal states, it actually decreased by about 1%."
The salient question is: was driving impairment due to pot a factor? Which, according to your links, is unknown.
Since so many more people are using marijuana now, obviously there will be an increase in finding traces in some people's autopsies. That is not proof of impairment as a causative factor as marijuana affects individuals in very different ways, as well it can be detected in biology days after use.
From one of your links:
Quote:
"All this report really shows is that more people in Washington State are likely consuming cannabis, and thus might have some THC in their systems at the time of an accident. But since having THC in your system tells us nothing about your potential impairment, it would be like a report showing how many people involved in accidents had drunk a beer in the last week," said Taylor West, deputy director of the group.
From another of your links:
Quote:
pointed to a different study, by the Transportation Department, which found that drivers who drivers who are drunk have a much greater increase in the risk of being in an accident than drivers who used marijuana.
What's particularly interesting about this is that, while pot use is up, and during that time, since marijuana legalization, traffic fatalities involving alcohol have plummeted in far, far greater number than the increase associated with pot.
The problem isn't pot is dangerous.
The problem is: driving impaired for any reason is dangerous.
And driving impaired is on a strongly downward trend. Washington Drunk Driving Statistics
Quote:
"There is understandably a strong desire by both lawmakers and the public to create legal limits for marijuana impairment, in the same manner as we do with alcohol," said Marshall Doney, AAA's CEO. "In the case of marijuana, this approach is flawed and not supported by scientific research. It's simply not possible today to determine whether a driver is impaired based solely on the amount of the drug in their body."
"Washington state legalized adult marijuana use in 2012. Cerda’s researchers found that more Washington teens started getting stoned that year. They no longer believed the drug was dangerous.
Among eighth-graders, their “perception of harmfulness” dropped 14%. Among 10th-graders, it fell 16%. That’s eye-opening when compared with kids in other states where marijuana has not been legalized. In those states, perceptions of harm dipped only 5% to 7%.
In Washington, weed use increased by 2% among eighth-graders and 4% among 10th-graders. But in non-legal states, it actually decreased by about 1%."
I think a lot of people care about accessibility implying permissibility. And it is a real and valid concern. Perhaps you are surprised I would agree.
But the dynamic is far greater than this one specific issue. Consider that teens have been drinking under age since about forever, right? They believed that drinking was:
cool, because adults do it en masse ... drinking is a culturally accepted norm
fun, because it is depicted as part of completely acceptable adult entertainment
safe, because it is widely accepted and marketed as safe
Now, even as underage marijuana use has increased by single digit percents, underage drinking is decreasing by double digit percentages:
Quote:
Underage drinking, binge boozing by minors is on the decline. ... A report from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration released Thursday found underage drinking among all U.S. residents from age 12 through 20 dropped 21%. Underage binge drinking decreased 26.4%.Jun 11, 2015 Underage drinking, binge boozing by minors is on the decline
The net story would appear to be that underage substance abuse is actually declining somewhat. To whatever extent that may be true, the credit almost certainly needs to go to better education of the associated realities.
Furthermore, drinking is far more dangerous and damaging to health than marijuana. Far more. Not even close.
The issue isn't that pot is evil. Nor that alcohol is evil. The issue is that humans are fallible creatures, subject to escapist behaviors. Demonizing individual substances is specious, and ignores the underlying greater reality that we seek relief from ever increasing psychological pressures of modern living. Demonizing escapism is also certain to be counterproductive when preached as a morality issue (Just say NO!)
The responsible challenge is to demonstrate to youth the advantages of good healthy lifestyles which include self-control and moderation. But, as long as society persists in being obsessed with self and sensationalist entertainment, rebellious behaviors will continue to manifest in abusive habits.
People have a need / desire / intuitive awareness - even if not a conscious one - to alter their perception(s) .... alter their consciousness. Even little kids do so when they spin and spin and then experience the outer world (and their bodies) in a different way.
Drug use is not simply (or even essentially imo) about escaping or rebelling although those two things are certainly factors in drug and alcohol use and particularly re; escapism, abuse.
As i see it, the use of intoxicants that numb / deaden / tweek are, in part, a misguided attempt to fulfill that need ... the need to alter / expand consciousness in order to gain insight / awareness re; who we are and what the nature of mind and reality are.
If anything needs demonization it is the soul denying / soul "killing" dominant culture which does anything but encourage sSelf realization and expansion of consciousness. Just the opposite. Oppressive forces do no want people to awaken. Awake people are not people who can be controlled.
Interesting how you use the words,"underlying greater reality". More accurately, those are words that nicely describe the very thing that shamanic cultures in every region of the world have been, with the use of psychoactive substances, working with for centuries.
It didn't soar. They are probably being arrested, framed, for $$. It's basically a DUI. Driving under the influence.
States get paid DOUBLE for DUI's if they come up with the required amount of DUI's the Feds require them for the 50% match of funds.
A HUGE portion which keeps this law enforcement entity working
Here in California, just recently, someone was arrested for DUI for drinking coffee.
Their DUI propaganda worked and people stopped drinking and driving so they had to start framing people to get their "matching Funds". Pick a pet fetish then match funds for whatever it is. Could be wearing seatbelts now and DUI's but I see propaganda on the freeways trying to turn us all into narks. They also paid bartenders to snitch and if that person was arrested, they got a kickback. All in the CHP DUI handbook I got a hold of. They had a separate one for DRUGS DUI handbook. I haven't been up on this for a while now
It didn't soar. They are probably being arrested, framed, for $$. It's basically a DUI. Driving under the influence.
It doubled and that is not god. Now I will agree they hjave no standard for testing that works, but the accidents show a correlation. It isn't limited to WA either. I have no problem with legalization, but I do have a problem with idiots being on it and driving.
Quote:
States get paid DOUBLE for DUI's if they come up with the required amount of DUI's the Feds require them for the 50% match of funds.
A HUGE portion which keeps this law enforcement entity working
Here in California, just recently, someone was arrested for DUI for drinking coffee.
Their DUI propaganda worked and people stopped drinking and driving so they had to start framing people to get their "matching Funds". Pick a pet fetish then match funds for whatever it is. Could be wearing seatbelts now and DUI's but I see propaganda on the freeways trying to turn us all into narks. They also paid bartenders to snitch and if that person was arrested, they got a kickback. All in the CHP DUI handbook I got a hold of. They had a separate one for DRUGS DUI handbook. I haven't been up on this for a while now
Great do not drink or smoke pot and drive. End of issue. Since we do not know when pot is a problem, only idiots would take the chance. Ditto with alcohol, which has no bearing on marijuana use, except as an excuse as it is said not to be as bad. So what, it is still not wise to use it and drive. Use it and stay home.
It doubled and that is not god. Now I will agree they hjave no standard for testing that works, but the accidents show a correlation. It isn't limited to WA either. I have no problem with legalization, but I do have a problem with idiots being on it and driving.
You need to do some research on the entity which produces this "statistic"
It replaced a very reputable INDEPENDENT association in the 70's or 80's. I've forgotten
[quote] Great do not drink or smoke pot and drive. End of issue. [quote]
This isn't about me and EXCUSE ME but you have no right to tell me to do anything.
Quote:
Since we do not know when pot is a problem,
huh?? try sticking to my letter because you are going off here in la la land.
Quote:
only idiots would take the chance.Ditto with alcohol, which has no bearing on marijuana use, except as an excuse as it is said not to be as bad. So what, it is still not wise to use it and drive. Use it and stay home.
You are aware of how self righteous your coming off as??
This isn't about me and EXCUSE ME but you have no right to tell me to do anything.
huh?? try sticking to my letter because you are going off here in la la land.
You are aware of how self righteous your coming off as??
Whatever... please be nice.
Try practicing what you preach.
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) is that in the past pot use was illegal, when they used it and, unless they grew it themselves, they were aiding and abetting criminals and contributing indirectly (and sometimes directly) to the violence. They do not like to admit they share any responsibility for what their actions were involved in; violence and death.
