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So you weren't asking a question at all, you were just trolling?
Sorry i should had ended that with a question mark than a period. As the data cannot explain why the state continues to shakedown its residents with all I mentioned above yet could not improve the conditions of its government or public facilities. I wonder is it a matter of management and not just funds?
Regarding the overplayed teachers union of some
posters I am puzzled as I know people who are teachers who move from the northeast to CA and they state the pay and benefits for teachers in CA overall are pretty inferior than what they got back the northeast. They say no wonder the whole education system itself in CA underperforms.
Sorry i should had ended that with a question mark than a period. As the data cannot explain why the state continues to shakedown its residents with all I mentioned above yet could not improve the conditions of its government or public facilities. I wonder is it a matter of management and not just funds?
Regarding the overplayed teachers union of some
posters I am puzzled as I know people who are teachers who move from the northeast to CA and they state the pay and benefits for teachers in CA overall are pretty inferior than what they got back the northeast. They say no wonder the whole education system itself in CA underperforms.
Check to pay to administrators and employees above teachers, some of whom are friends/supporters of politicians.
The Gov's hands are tied as to how most of the money is spent. That's why you see municipalities now leveling outrageous fines for traffic infractions, for example, and charging more for parking: to get badly-needed revenue into the system. It's a sign of a budget in trouble. Not that that's anything new, but the worse it gets, the more they have to search every nook and cranny for potential revenue, and take all options to new extremes.
Great comment. I always wonder where does all those fees goes to? Does the court need that much money to handle simple cases? And why other states can survive without such outrages fees yet they are able to maintain their public infrastructure.
Many of the fines don't make much sense either. I.e the fine for making a mistake on a "HOV" "HOT" lane can almost be high if not higher than running a red light in some juristications even though there is no comparison which have the potential to cause significant harm and which does not. And in some transit districts fines for making a mistake in how to pay the fare in a honor system is higher than most traffic and parking violations. Good way to encourage transit ridership, or NOT.
Btw our juror pay is still far behind the times in terms of minimum wage where as in some states its same as minimum wage if not better.
Where does all that money collected by outrageous taxes, fees, fines, and costs go in California?
Depends on what taxes, fines, and costs you're paying, what they are for, and which government entity is collecting them. Where I live, the State practically rebuilt Interstate 15 (now nice and smooth) and the reconstructed the interchange with that freeway and Interstate 215 (functions a lot better than before).
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,067,341 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
Unionizing the military would not be a problem, they would not be allowed to go on strike, just as local public safety employees (police and fire) aren't allowed to
So then you agree that other government servants should not be able to go on strike, either? If so then we agree.
Take away their ability to strike and their ability to negotiate pay and benefits, and then I might support the existence of unions for government servants.
Again, the Legislature should pay them what the state can afford, not what they want to be paid. We all want to be paid 200k. The state can't afford to do that. It would go bankrupt. When serving your country -- or your state, but serving your state is ultimately serving the country -- you're supposed to have the same goal as the country. For example if your role in serving your country on the staff of the State of California is Accountant, your goal should be to reconcile the financial tables of the state, not to make a high salary. Similarly, when I was a Sonar Technician Submarines, my goal was to detect and track contacts, and to defend my fellow Americans, not to make a high salary. Therefore government servants should have no need for a union. If they want to make a lot of money, they can join the private sector. And I do support unions for the private sector. Blue collar workers at Tesla, for example, seem to need a union quite badly.
We are already almost bankrupt because of pensions. We really need to change it to defined contribution instead of defined benefit SOON. Like yesterday.
The military is different because most of us don't stay for 20 years. For example, I didn't retire; I just left when my End of Active Obligated Service date arrived. I get the GI Bill and I get VA Health Care free -- until my income is higher, after which I will start paying a copay if I still want VA Health Care -- but I don't get a pension. I was a PAPERCLIP: "People Against People Ever Reenlisting, Civilian Life Is Preferred". lol Plus our pensions are a lot lower than what civilian government servants get:
So then you agree that other government servants should not be able to go on strike, either? If so then we agree.
Take away their ability to strike and their ability to negotiate pay and benefits, and then I might support the existence of unions for government servants.
Again, the Legislature should pay them what the state can afford, not what they want to be paid. We all want to be paid 200k. The state can't afford to do that. It would go bankrupt. When serving your country -- or your state, but serving your state is ultimately serving the country -- you're supposed to have the same goal as the country. For example if your role in serving your country on the staff of the State of California is Accountant, your goal should be to reconcile the financial tables of the state, not to make a high salary. Similarly, when I was a Sonar Technician Submarines, my goal was to detect and track contacts, and to defend my fellow Americans, not to make a high salary. Therefore government servants should have no need for a union. If they want to make a lot of money, they can join the private sector. And I do support unions for the private sector. Blue collar workers at Tesla, for example, seem to need a union quite badly.
We are already almost bankrupt because of pensions. We really need to change it to defined contribution instead of defined benefit SOON. Like yesterday.
The military is different because most of us don't stay for 20 years. For example, I didn't retire; I just left when my End of Active Obligated Service date arrived. I get the GI Bill and I get VA Health Care free -- until my income is higher, after which I will start paying a copay if I still want VA Health Care -- but I don't get a pension. I was a PAPERCLIP: "People Against People Ever Reenlisting, Civilian Life Is Preferred". lol Plus our pensions are a lot lower than what civilian government servants get:
That whole post sounds like just another bad case of union and pension envy.
Strikes should not be allowed if doing so would endanger the public otherwise unions should be able to strike. As far as wanting to get paid 200k what is that all about? I worked in the public sector probably for more years than you've been on earth but I never got anything close to 200k.
My son is a public sector accountant and makes about 70% of what his private sector counterparts earn, but he likes the hours, the benefits and the pension, so that is a choice he made. If you take away the goodies you won't have anyone doing public accounting unless you pay them what they earn in the private sector. Do you really expect someone to work for minimum wage after they spend 5 or 6 years in college studying accounting?
You didn't get paid well in the military because they can train someone to be a sonar technician 10 weeks, and that is why young people in the military don't get paid well, they are readily replaceable in a short time by another youngster with a high school diploma and half a brain.
Defined benefit pensions are not bankrupting anyone, that's a BS lie spread by wall street which desperately wants to get their hands on that pension money and play roulette with it.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,067,341 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
That whole post sounds like just another bad case of union and pension envy.
Nope. They should just serve their country and be happy to get any pay which is what we do in the military.
Quote:
You didn't get paid well in the military because they can train someone to be a sonar technician 10 weeks, and that is why young people in the military don't get paid well, they are readily replaceable in a short time by another youngster with a high school diploma and half a brain.
No, it is because the US Navy has a certain budget and can only pay personnel a certain amount. Officers are also not paid well, and their jobs require college degrees. The Captain of my second boat, for example, had a BS in Physics.
btw to become a submariner actually requires 12 months of training. In addition to Basic Training, A School and Basic Enlisted Submarine School (24 weeks altogether), to remain on the submarine crew one must become Qualified in Submarines; it takes months of study and requires one to pass a board interview with one officer and two enlisted personnel. The same knowledge is required of both officers and enlisted. If you do not become qualified in nine months after being assigned to the first submarine, you are "delinquent"; if you don't achieve it in one year, you are subject to being sent to the surface fleet for lack of intellectual skill.
Last edited by neutrino78x; 07-16-2016 at 11:11 PM..
So then you agree that other government servants should not be able to go on strike, either? If so then we agree.
Take away their ability to strike and their ability to negotiate pay and benefits, and then I might support the existence of unions for government servants.
Again, the Legislature should pay them what the state can afford, not what they want to be paid. We all want to be paid 200k. The state can't afford to do that. It would go bankrupt. When serving your country -- or your state, but serving your state is ultimately serving the country -- you're supposed to have the same goal as the country. For example if your role in serving your country on the staff of the State of California is Accountant, your goal should be to reconcile the financial tables of the state, not to make a high salary. Similarly, when I was a Sonar Technician Submarines, my goal was to detect and track contacts, and to defend my fellow Americans, not to make a high salary. Therefore government servants should have no need for a union. If they want to make a lot of money, they can join the private sector. And I do support unions for the private sector. Blue collar workers at Tesla, for example, seem to need a union quite badly.
We are already almost bankrupt because of pensions. We really need to change it to defined contribution instead of defined benefit SOON. Like yesterday.
The military is different because most of us don't stay for 20 years. For example, I didn't retire; I just left when my End of Active Obligated Service date arrived. I get the GI Bill and I get VA Health Care free -- until my income is higher, after which I will start paying a copay if I still want VA Health Care -- but I don't get a pension. I was a PAPERCLIP: "People Against People Ever Reenlisting, Civilian Life Is Preferred". lol Plus our pensions are a lot lower than what civilian government servants get:
Edit: having said the above, note that I would support changing the military retirement system to defined contribution as well.
Neutrino - um, you really need to give it all a rest brother.
"We're" (the state) not anything like "almost bankrupt" (states can't go bankrupt anyway). Not because of pensions or any other reason, or reasons combined. All y'all need to quit buying into this constant hysteria posted everyday here. Too freaking hilarious. Get a grip.
Quote:
State & City Pension Funding: A Contrarian View
Unfunded Pension Liabilities Do Not Mean Insolvency
State and city pension funds are not insolvent. Pension funding for states and cities is under a microscope these days, with predictions that unfunded liabilities are going to lead to wide scale defaults and bankruptcies of municipal debt. These predictions are overblown, by people who have not followed state and city fiscal trends over decades, through 6 recessions, as I have. Here are some facts that informed investors need to know about public pension funding: FACT: In the 1950s through 1970s, pension funding levels were the same or lower than today’s levels, without rampant municipal bond defaults or bankruptcies; FACT: The Pew Center on States, authors of a definitive study on pension funding and a major critic of unfunded liabilities, points out that average state pension funding was at 84% in 2008, higher than the average in the 1970s, and a “relatively positive outcome, because most experts advise at least an 80 percent funding level” FACT: Even states with some of the weakest pension funding rates, like New Jersey, had enough assets at the end of 2009 to cover their pension costs by 10 times or more.
This last point is crucial, because pension funding is not well understood by the general public. An unfunded pension liability will not, by itself, lead to immediate financial crisis or insolvency, except in the extremely rare case where a municipality has not set aside any reserves at all for paying retirement costs. That is not to say that pension funding is not a problem; clearly, states and cities need to take action on pension funding to avoid rapidly rising costs that will need to be paid by future generations. It does mean, however, that unfunded pension liabilities have occurred in the past and will again occur in the future. And it is clear from an historical review that unfunded liabilities do not mean budgetary insolvency and default. State & City Pension Funding: A Contrarian View - HJ Sims
As for not paying state employees what they want, uh, we don't. As you pointed out, everybody would like to make $200K as a janitor - but they don't get it do they? You're complaining about the state now? Pay lower and get even worse results.
Of course pay scales and pension funding should be managed as efficiently as possible and renegotiated where / when they get out of line with reality. Obviously now is one of those times. But fer cryin out loud it's not "End of Times!"
And, in closing, allow me to point out that all the "should's""and "supposed ta's" in the universe don't apparently result in conformance, eh? I'm thinking you were down there underwater too long maybe. You'll do much better if you look at things as they are - rather than how they're "supposed" to be. Carry on, sailor.
Nope. They should just serve their country and be happy to get any pay which is what we do in the military.
Yo bro! There you go again with the "should's". Easy does it now. Bubba, I was in the military longer than you. Seven years active and 15 Ready Reserve retired. And I know damn well that nearly everyone who joins the service likes the idea of being respected for their service, but in fact joined for the decent pay, terrific benefits, training, security, adventure. Serving Uncle Sam is way down the list for most. Way down.
Reality will set you free, brother. Give it a shot. It's not bad out here at all, free of the burdens of "should" and "supposed ta".
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Plus our pensions are a lot lower than what civilian government servants get:
