People are not leaving CA due to taxes and regulation. (San Francisco: houses, buying)

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

Fact is the people who leave by and large are the low income folk and non- college types. At least those who didn't learn a trade.

I find that quite presumptive. You've left out the rather large cohort of retirees who leave, at least for one reason, in order to maximize their retirement/pension dollars although many of us also prefer other areas based upon prior experience with them and others because they no longer care for California's governance. For many, including us seven years ago, it's a combination of all of those. Many of us are reasonably well educated and held responsible jobs or owned businesses. We could have remained in place but simply chose not to.

As to your question, "Would we take a walk where we live at 2:00 p.m. today where we live?" No we would not. However, neither would we take a walk then for most of last week, the rest of this week nor probably the next two weeks in Sacramento from whence we came. Last I checked, Sacramento is in California.

The bottom line is that there are likely as many reasons for leaving CA as there are people who have done so, to include employment opportunities for those who need them. Blanket statements don't work. They rarely do.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I find that quite presumptive. You've left out the rather large cohort of retirees who leave, at least for one reason, in order to maximize their retirement/pension dollars although many of us also prefer other areas based upon prior experience with them and others because they no longer care for California's governance. For many, including us seven years ago, it's a combination of all of those. Many of us are reasonably well educated and held responsible jobs or owned businesses. We could have remained in place but simply chose not to.

As to your question, "Would we take a walk where we live at 2:00 p.m. today where we live?" No we would not. However, neither would we take a walk then for most of last week, the rest of this week nor probably the next two weeks in Sacramento from whence we came. Last I checked, Sacramento is in California.

The bottom line is that there are likely as many reasons for leaving CA as there are people who have done so, to include employment opportunities for those who need them. Blanket statements don't work. They rarely do.

Sure, lots of people leave for lots of reasons - including retirees, including the wealthy, including people who seek lower taxes, etc. But the point of this thread is to verify that the pervasive myth of 'mostly wealthy and productive Californians fleeing the state in droves to avoid COL and high taxes and over-regulation', etc, isn't borne out by statistical facts. The OP linked an article confirming that the predominant out-migration is statistically verified as lower income groups, not higher. As such, given California's highly progressive income tax tiering, taxation is particularly not the reason. Nor is government regulatory policies.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by tulemutt

sure, lots of people leave for lots of reasons - including retirees, including the wealthy, including people who seek lower taxes, etc. But the point of this thread is to verify that the pervasive myth of 'mostly wealthy and productive californians fleeing the state in droves to avoid col and high taxes and over-regulation', etc, isn't borne out by statistical facts. The op linked an article confirming that the predominant out-migration is statistically verified as lower income groups, not higher. As such, given california's highly progressive income tax tiering, taxation is particularly not the reason. Nor is government regulatory policies.

ok!

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

ok!

Yeah ... you and your $ bazillion dollar portfolio and your 2,000 employee high-tech aerospace company moving to Missouri is an outlier!

[volosong]

[ mod note: Second warning about bickering.]

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by ashpelham

But how ANYONE lives there, or even here in Alabama, on less than 50k blows my mind.

I am just over that mark in the high cost SF Bay Area so I will tell you. Fundamentally, it comes down to not living--or even wanting--the "Standard Middle Class" lifestyle, but here are the details which are also explained well by Mr. Money Mustache here:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/...one-blog-post/

--No kids...or pets (Never wanted them.)
--Shared housing, eventually (after 8.5 years) upgraded to studio apartment when savings were significant.
--Buy used economy car for cash and drive it forever. Current car is 20 years old. I am finally getting ready to replace it.
--Keep commute as short as possible, which is easier to do if you don't need a lot of living space. I walk to work, which is one reason why I can keep a 20 year old car--I simply don't need to drive that much. It did take me over a decade to get this live near work setup. I wish I had tried to get it sooner, but I assumed it was impossible, so it became self fulfilling.
--No cable tv. No expensive cell phone plans. Plus the general advice of: shop sales at the grocery store, keep the restaurant and Starbucks visits in moderation (i.e. not every day or even every other day). Don't buy stuff you don't need (which is easier to do if you have a small living space).

I will say I have a rent controlled apartment and a merciful landlord who could have raised the rent a lot more than they have and still been within the rent control laws.

But over the past 15 years, I have saved between 1/4 and 1/3 of my gross income despite the high cost of living. I admit I wouldn't be able to do as well as a newcomer because of the higher rent for new tenants and the fact that it takes some time to get the kinks worked out as far as living and work arrangements.

Also, some parts of California are not as expensive but are still decent places to live. Sacramento comes to mind. Not as nice as the coastal metros, but pretty nice and the high cost of living doesn't hang over you like a black cloud as it does for many people in the high cost coastal areas.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

We could have remained in place but simply chose not to.

So, you're admitting you could have stayed here, but you chose not to? That's very different than saying "I couldn't stay any longer, it wasn't feasible..."

And you keep haunting the California Forums for what reason exactly? ...If where you're at is so great, why keep coming back here?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

So, you're admitting you could have stayed here, but you chose not to? That's very different than saying "I couldn't stay any longer, it wasn't feasible..."

And you keep haunting the California Forums for what reason exactly? ...If where you're at is so great, why keep coming back here?

Yes, we chose to retire elsewhere which we had planned on for years.

Native Californian from SoCal married to another native Californian but from NorCal. We're very ecumenical. Three daughters, two step-daughters, their in-laws, 10 grands in NorCal. Vested interest(s). We'll always have an interest in our home state. It's where we started and lived most of our lives, about 50 years each.

[Ultrarunner]

One of the nice thing about exchanges on City-Data is the prospective of those coming and going...

Some wonder why they waited to make a move and others regret.

The posts provide a window into others experiences... nothing more or less.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

One of the nice thing about exchanges on City-Data is the prospective of those coming and going...

Some wonder why they waited to make a move and others regret.

The posts provide a window into others experiences... nothing more or less.

Read enough of them and you get a balanced view. Neither good or bad, but what is .....