Should California implement a 2 weeks guaranteed paid vacation for all workers?

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Its complete fantasy. In this example, you are just a lone ranger, up against an incredibly powerful corporation that has bought off both politicians and the judiciary. You can sue them if you want to in your libertarian paradise, but you will lose badly and go bankrupt. The judiciary is bought off, the laws will favor large corporations as the lawmakers are in their pockets. The little guy stands no chance when the society is run by the donor class. You will get crushed like an ant with no legs, shooting4life! You will be forced to beg on the streets to pay off your legal fees. But far more likely, you will end up in debtor's prisons like tens of millions of other Americans and work as slave labor in prison making socks for a corporation in order for America to compete with China and India. Its a so-called "Supreme liberty and freedom correctional Center" and you will have to bow down every morning to the picture of the founding fathers.

So your argument is in a limited government corporations will buy off politicians and the judicial system but in a government with even more power corporations will some how stop buying off politicians and judges that have even more authority to make your life miserable. You act like politicians become benevolent and cease self service once the government is the size it is today when example after example show politicians bowing down the corporate and special interests, making tens of millions of dollars while their only income is 100k a year and selling influence both domestic and abroad. Just look at Hillary Clinton, selling state department access for hundreds of millions of dollars over 4 years. It is disgusting and you just want to increase their influence they have over us.

If you reduce the power of politicians you reduce their worth and thus the influence corporations have over them.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

So your argument is in a limited government corporations will buy off politicians and the judicial system but in a government with even more power corporations will some how stop buying off politicians and judges that have even more authority to make your life miserable. You act like politicians become benevolent and cease self service once the government is the size it is today when example after example show politicians bowing down the corporate and special interests, making tens of millions of dollars while their only income is 100k a year and selling influence both domestic and abroad. Just look at Hillary Clinton, selling state department access for hundreds of millions of dollars over 4 years. It is disgusting and you just want to increase their influence they have over us.

If you reduce the power of politicians you reduce their worth and thus the influence corporations have over them.

Yes, this is what we see in third-world hellholes with limited governments. Government is the only potentially democratic institution we have. Thats why the ruling class hates it and want working stiffs to hate it too. You are the one who advocate massive transfer of wealth and income from the 99% to the donor class. That is a core part of the libertarian ideology.

You have to choose, either democracy or massive income and wealth inequality. You choose the latter. The more inequality, the more democracy is undermined. The end result is clear: Laws by and for the donor class, and you and tens of millions of people ending up in debtor's prison as corporate slaves, having to bow down to the founding fathers every morning and thank them for your freedom. And the loudspeakers in the work camp will blast Keep on rockin' in the free world for hours.

[AFP]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

People in California get burned out like crazy, yet most people cant take any vacation time either because they dont get it from their employer or are pressured to stay on the job to stay "loyal".

California is the 6th largest economy in the world, and in all the other economies ahead of CA all workers get guaranteed paid leave.

Yep I like the idea I don't see this happening in the near future though. There will be a lot of changes once the old Republicans are replaced by a new generation of liberals in the voting booths.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Yes, this is what we see in third-world hellholes with limited governments. Government is the only potentially democratic institution we have. Thats why the ruling class hates it and want working stiffs to hate it too. You are the one who advocate massive transfer of wealth and income from the 99% to the donor class. That is a core part of the libertarian ideology.

You have to choose, either democracy or massive income and wealth inequality. You choose the latter. The more inequality, the more democracy is undermined. The end result is clear: Laws by and for the donor class, and you and tens of millions of people ending up in debtor's prison as corporate slaves, having to bow down to the founding fathers every morning and thank them for your freedom. And the loudspeakers in the work camp will blast Keep on rockin' in the free world for hours.

You are a little detached from how the ruling class uses our current method of government to its advantage. We don't have a 70k page tax code because it is good for regular people. Washington, D.C. Doesn't contain 5 or the 6 richest counties in America because influence peddling pays horribly.

We have a plutocracy disguised as a Representitive republic. You pretend you have a choice right now but all you have is the person the democrats and republicans pick for you. If you think the people picked Hillary then you have been ignoring the leaked emails from the dnc that ensured she would win.

You act like government doesn't have control of you because it is large, government has control over you specifically because it is large. If politicians didn't have power they would be bribed. If you reduce the power of politicians you reduce the value of buying them leading to increased freedom for everyone.

You can keep believing the current ruling class is looking out for your best interests right after they take a bribe from the unions, Koch brothers, Soros and big pharma to carve out exceptions and tax breaks that ensure they succeed and their competitors fail.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

You are a little detached from how the ruling class uses our current method of government to its advantage. We don't have a 70k page tax code because it is good for regular people. Washington, D.C. Doesn't contain 5 or the 6 richest counties in America because influence peddling pays horribly.

We have a plutocracy disguised as a Representitive republic. You pretend you have a choice right now but all you have is the person the democrats and republicans pick for you. If you think the people picked Hillary then you have been ignoring the leaked emails from the dnc that ensured she would win.

You act like government doesn't have control of you because it is large, government has control over you specifically because it is large. If politicians didn't have power they would be bribed. If you reduce the power of politicians you reduce the value of buying them leading to increased freedom for everyone.

You can keep believing the current ruling class is looking out for your best interests right after they take a bribe from the unions, Koch brothers, Soros and big pharma to carve out exceptions and tax breaks that ensure they succeed and their competitors fail.

You dont address the fact that laws will be written by corporations in your paradise and you will be crushed like an ant if you protest against the coal mining plant in your backyard. The Koch brothers are libertarians. Libertarianism is a disaster for regular folks as there would be no functional democracy. You would either have to accept the coal mining plant in your backyard and die an early death or go for the debtor's prison option after getting crushed in the courts.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

You dont address the fact that laws will be written by corporations in your paradise and you will be crushed like an ant if you protest against the coal mining plant in your backyard. The Koch brothers are libertarians. Libertarianism is a disaster for regular folks as there would be no functional democracy. You would either have to accept the coal mining plant in your backyard and die an early death or go for the debtor's prison option after getting crushed in the courts.

The reality is that all forms of Gov't are corrupt and all parties are. You just get to vote for which corrupt politicians you want running things.

Uniquely this year Trump did change things. Unlike the Democratic party, which really gave no one a choice in who to have as the parties nominee, the Republican establishment lost control of that. Like or dislike Trump he exposed the corruption in both parties.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

If a company doesnt offer any benefits they most likely don't pay crap and more importantly dont really care if you stay or go

And not only that, most companies that have crappy or no benefits tend to be marginal, low profit margin businesses. Mandating vacation increases their costs, which creates one or more of the following: 1. Increased costs get passed onto consumers. 2. They find a way to do more with fewer workers. 3. They go out of business.

Mandated vacation has the same effect of raising the minimum wage. The more it costs to employ someone, the fewer employees you'll get--and this is most true in low profit margin businesses. The more anything costs (gasoline, food, shelter, labor, etc.) the less it gets used (i.e. people in CA tend to have less living space because housing here is expensive). The same laws of economics apply to everything. Yes, that includes labor, too.