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The L.A. Times is coming in late on this issue. State employees and retirees have been beaten about the ears for years ever since 2000 and especially 2008, much of it fueled by pension envy including here on C-D.
Quote:
The warning made no discernible impression on the board, dominated by union leaders and their political allies.
It was this, thanks to Gray Davis who was owned and operated by the unions, who created the issue and in terms of union "sponsorship" and ownership, Jerry Brown is little different. Similarly, most of the Legislature, especially on the left side of the aisle, is no different either. I was and have remained furious at union leaders being allowed to dominate the PERS Board.
I retired from the state after 25 years of service and appreciate my pension as does my wife who had to retire early after 15 years with the state. We each receive 50% of our former pay. Best of all are the benefits we receive for medical, dental and vision care and we make no apologies for them. Fortuitously for the state and its taxpayers we've both been on Medicare for some years so the state is only paying for 20% of our medical costs through premiums for our state-provided, Medicare supplement. We both had children - none together - and benefits for us our families were a huge part of each of our decisions to go to work for the state. Our children got off to good, healthy starts although some of mine were launched while I was still in the military. Hmm! The taxpayers, including us, paid for those as well. Pity!
That's all. Now I'll sit back with a beer and watch the pension enviers tear into all government workers. To help them I'll point out that many county and municipal employees also fall under CalPERS by contract. That's a potential triple whammy for many taxpayers. Now then, Enjoy!
It could very well be pension envy or simply concern about the sustainability going forward.
Almost all of my LEO friends left California after retirement... a surprising number of Highway Patrol moved to Nevada...
I realize there is a disconnect between State and local but when I attended council meetings in Oakland the compensation gains for State employees was a critical point for local law enforcement increases.
My uncle died in the line of duty as a deputy and there was nothing other than a 10k life insurance policy with the premium split between the department and him...
Growing up, several of the Dad's were police officers... all had second jobs until they made rank... just couldn't have a family starting out...
The old pension system for Oakland Police officers is forever tied to what the current rank pay... this means some are getting nearly as much as 3x the income in retirement.
Have a hard time getting my head around someone having a 180k pension and then going to another department bringing in another 130k...
If it gets too bad and taxes become unbearable I can see a greater exodus of wealth leaving and then who will be here to pay the bill.
No one in my family or extended family has ever had a pension... I did switch from being self employed to an employee for benefits... through acquisitions and mergers it is all gone... 80% of what my employer had put into my account was lost with the first takeover and similar the second time... yet I have had the same position/desk for 25 years.
One of my Uncles best friends said when he left the service he didn't have a clue as to what he wanted career wise except he was not going back to the family farm... he heard a local city was hiring and on a lark applied and was hired... he often jokes that his career could be summed up as a well paid taxi driver... never un holstered his weapon in 31 years during transport...
He said it was just dumb luck on his part... no planning at all.
It could very well be pension envy or simply concern about the sustainability going forward.
Almost all of my LEO friends left California after retirement... a surprising number of Highway Patrol moved to Nevada...
I realize there is a disconnect between State and local but when I attended council meetings in Oakland the compensation gains for State employees was a critical point for local law enforcement increases.
My uncle died in the line of duty as a deputy and there was nothing other than a 10k life insurance policy with the premium split between the department and him...
Growing up, several of the Dad's were police officers... all had second jobs until they made rank... just couldn't have a family starting out...
The old pension system for Oakland Police officers is forever tied to what the current rank pay... this means some are getting nearly as much as 3x the income in retirement.
Have a hard time getting my head around someone having a 180k pension and then going to another department bringing in another 130k...
If it gets too bad and taxes become unbearable I can see a greater exodus of wealth leaving and then who will be here to pay the bill.
No one in my family or extended family has ever had a pension... I did switch from being self employed to an employee for benefits... through acquisitions and mergers it is all gone... 80% of what my employer had put into my account was lost with the first takeover and similar the second time... yet I have had the same position/desk for 25 years.
One of my Uncles best friends said when he left the service he didn't have a clue as to what he wanted career wise except he was not going back to the family farm... he heard a local city was hiring and on a lark applied and was hired... he often jokes that his career could be summed up as a well paid taxi driver... never un holstered his weapon in 31 years during transport...
He said it was just dumb luck on his part... no planning at all.
As mentioned before when you brought this subject up, you will find a lot what could be reasonably seen a excess in pensions going to state county, local , public safety. Regarding someone you know getting a 180k public pension, I retired from the state after 27 yrs and my pension is under 1/6 of that amount. I had to retire 3 or 4 years earlier then planned because of a medical issue. I ended up augmenting my pension with my savings for a number of months, until I could draw early SSI
Curmudeon... do you have any concerns the State will not be able to make good on Pension obligations?
The reason I ask is plenty of my union friends experienced just that... ranging from Airline Pilots to Union Meat Cutters... all have faced reductions in benefits... some drastic and most at or shortly after retirement.
The Mom of one of my friends cleaned for a convalescent home... minimum wage... she applied to the transit district to clean BART cars... was hired... she recently retired and her Pension for cleaning BART cars is 56k... she said it was easier than Convalescent Housekeeping and paid many times better... BART is Union and Convalescent not...
As mentioned before when you brought this subject up, you will find a lot what could be reasonably seen a excess in pensions going to state county, local , public safety. Regarding someone you know getting a 180k public pension, I retired from the state after 27 yrs and my pension is under 1/6 of that amount. I had to retire 3 or 4 years earlier then planned because of a medical issue. I ended up augmenting my pension with my savings for a number of months, until I could draw early SSI
The story linked just came out today...
I have mentioned the 180k person before simply because it makes one stop and think... Oakland always has financial issues and the office of chief is a revolving door...
Maybe it is more a being of bewilderment... someone looking from the outside in on my part.
Even the key Calpers guy said it was risky because the rate of return was pegged too high... no matter it happened.
Curmudeon... do you have any concerns the State will not be able to make good on Pension obligations?
The reason I ask is plenty of my union friends experienced just that... ranging from Airline Pilots to Union Meat Cutters... all have faced reductions in benefits... some drastic and most at or shortly after retirement.
The Mom of one of my friends cleaned for a convalescent home... minimum wage... she applied to the transit district to clean BART cars... was hired... she recently retired and her Pension for cleaning BART cars is 56k... she said it was easier than Convalescent Housekeeping and paid many times better... BART is Union and Convalescent not...
I think this perhaps could a possibility with municipalities with CALPERS contracts for their employees, not direct state employees. Municipalities can file bankruptcy
SB400 was an atrocity, giving all 33,000 prison guards peace officer status and safety retirement was nuts. As was giving safety retirement to a bunch of pseudo public safety state officials, like welfare investigators, the list of who is eligible is both amusing and depressing.
No one needs a 90% retirement after 30 years of service, that's obscene, fortunately through PEPRA that is being changed and I think the State will be able to continue to meet pension obligations but this just did not need to happen. There is NOTHING about a public safety employee that makes them more deserving of a higher pension than any other employee, they already receive more pay, what are they doing that is so special that we are going to reward them with pensions that frequently more than twice what other public employee pensions are?
How did we get here? Because lawmakers were never challenged about the consequences of changing things like Pension Formulas because which they were doing it in return for donations from CCPOA, CHP, PORAC, and hundreds of local Police and Fire Unions. The worst union of all was CCPOA, the prison guards union, they were superb at not only getting lawmakers to do what they wanted, but to get public buy in to the idea that they deserve salaries 3 times higher than what prison guards in other states get and also for imposing the dystopian vision of our state being so over run with criminals that we needed to continue to build more prisons and lock people up for longer periods of time. In 2005 they donated 9.97 million to various politicians.
I am pro union, I am retired from a public agency and I get a generous pension in large part due to the issues I have mentioned here, but that does not mean that I think it should work like this. The system has become a perversion. IMO defined benefit pensions should be limited to 60% of your pay after 30 years of service, and employees should pay their fair share of the costs of a pension. Believe it or not I didn't have to make any pension contribution for over 15 years not one penny which was just plain crazy.
And as far as how many California state employees move out of state when they retire, it's not most, it's not even a lot- it turns out to be around 15% and I'm sure many of them, like myself move back when they find out that other states are not the Nirvana that they are made out to be.
The only way to fix it is to take the money out of politics, but that's not going to happen so I guess all we are left with is a depressing subject to discuss on an internet forum
SB400 was an atrocity, giving all 33,000 prison guards peace officer status and safety retirement was nuts. As was giving safety retirement to a bunch of pseudo public safety state officials, like welfare investigators, the list of who is eligible is both amusing and depressing.
No one needs a 90% retirement after 30 years of service, that's obscene, fortunately through PEPRA that is being changed and I think the State will be able to continue to meet pension obligations but this just did not need to happen. There is NOTHING about a public safety employee that makes them more deserving of a higher pension than any other employee, they already receive more pay, what are they doing that is so special that we are going to reward them with pensions that frequently more than twice what other public employee pensions are?
It was as foolhardy as was the plan to build 33 prisons in California and put so many people in prison that we ended up spending more on prisons than on higher education.
How did we get here? Because lawmakers were never challenged about the consequences of changing things like Pension Formulas because which they were doing so they could load up on donations from CCPOA, CHP, PORAC, and hundreds of local Police and Fire Unions.
The worst union of all was CCPOA, the prison guards union, they were superb at not only getting lawmakers to do what they wanted, but to get public buy in to the idea that they deserve salaries 3 times higher than what prison guards in other states get and also for imposing the dystopian vision of our state being so over run with criminals that we needed to continue to build more prisons and lock people up for longer periods of time. In order to accomplish that they even formed their own victims organization "Crime Victims United" It was run by the girlfriend of the CCPOA president. At the height of their power, in 2005 they donated 9.97 million to various politicians. Hell, they even owned their own legislators, George and Sharon Runner were bought and paid for by CCPOA.
I am pro union, I am retired from a public agency and I get a generous pension in large part due to the issues I have mentioned here, but that does not mean that I think it should work like this. The system has become a perversion. IMO defined benefit pensions should be limited to 60% of your pay after 30 years of service, and employees should pay their fair share of the costs of a pension. Believe it or not I didn't have to make any pension contribution for over 15 years not one penny which was just plain crazy.
And as far as how many California state employees move out of state when they retire, it's not most, it's not even a lot- it turns out to be around 15% and I'm sure many of them, like myself move back when they find out that other states are not the Nirvana that they are made out to be.
The only way to fix it is to take the money out of politics, but that's not going to happen so I guess all we are left with is a depressing subject to discuss on an internet forum
And to pay for, unless you re a retired union member.
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