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Old 11-30-2016, 07:36 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,470,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
My increasing income is causing my taxes to go up, pricing me out of things I hold dear. Should my income tax be locked at my previous lower bracket?

Everyone wants loopholes removed until it is their loophole.
Perfect example... you work and the government gets a share... the more your "EARN" as in money in your pocket the more tax dollars you pay.

Property Tax under the Pre Prop 13 period was paid on nothing but an opinion of value... by definition in the law Real Property is unique and therefore the "BEST" that could be hoped for is the Assessor Opinion of Value is correct... let me say many times it is NOT... appeal is an often lengthy dragged out process encompassing years all the while you are required to pony up the money while waiting for your hearing.

I love sales Tax... on any given day I can choose to buy or not buy... I might be able to repair or do without...

Income tax is similar... it is a percentage of what is coming to me...

Property Tax is a tax for simply "Being"... you have something and to let you keep it you must pay... and pay again annually.

Prop 13 introduced a framework taking the guess work out of the equation... it is based on a real number 99.9% of the time and comes with a built in annual cap on inflation increases and only requires voter approval for additional taxes... simply, easy to understand and limited surprises.

I do realize that some will never accept Prop 13 has a proven track record over the decades and that the question of "Fairness" has been already addressed by the US Supreme Court.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 25,996,463 times
Reputation: 33867
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
It is basic supply and demand. If prop 13 was changed so everyone payed the same you would see an increase of supply of people leaving expensive and In demand areas to move to less expensive areas. This increase in supply would then lower prices. That is how supply and demand works.
ok, let's assume that prop 13 was overturned tomorrow. Do you really think they would go reappraise every home in California and set the tax rate at the current value and increase the tax by thousands or tens of thousands of dollars overnight? That ain't gonna happen, they would probably add a small annual percentage increase to the tax of homes where the taxable basis is less than the current appraised value and continue charging that until the two numbers were the same, but that could take 10-40 years.

So my suggestion to you is that if you really want to buy a house, go to Merced.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:38 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,292,763 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Perfect example... you work and the government gets a share... the more your "EARN" as in money in your pocket the more tax dollars you pay.

Property Tax under the Pre Prop 13 period was paid on nothing but an opinion of value... by definition in the law Real Property is unique and therefore the "BEST" that could be hoped for is the Assessor Opinion of Value is correct... let me say many times it is NOT... appeal is an often lengthy dragged out process encompassing years all the while you are required to pony up the money while waiting for your hearing.

I love sales Tax... on any given day I can choose to buy or not buy... I might be able to repair or do without...

Income tax is similar... it is a percentage of what is coming to me...

Property Tax is a tax for simply "Being"... you have something and to let you keep it you must pay... and pay again annually.

Prop 13 introduced a framework taking the guess work out of the equation... it is based on a real number 99.9% of the time and comes with a built in annual cap on inflation increases and only requires voter approval for additional taxes... simply, easy to understand and limited surprises.

I do realize that some will never accept Prop 13 has a proven track record over the decades and that the question of "Fairness" has been already addressed by the US Supreme Court.
You got it.
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:42 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,470,995 times
Reputation: 23225
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
In some areas. I was doing Landscape construction and maintenance on new home tracts and the prices were going up every quarter in SoCal. Don't know about the rest of the State but in SoCal they were going up. In one area I moved to the prices had double in 3 year (SD County). This was even with the gas price variations. More people were moving to SoCal and wanting homes. A lot of them retirees from the North East who had money and could move somewhere other than FL or stay home in the snow in the Winter. This was in SoCal and prices were going up.
I live in Oakland and so have many generations of my family...

The 60's and 70's saw tremendous "White" flight... prices were at best stagnant... not just Oakland but also Richmond and Pittsburg...

Oakland has been called the Detroit of the West for decades due to manufacturing... it also had a problem with abandoned buildings...

As I walked to school as a kid there were lots of abandoned homes... boarded up with trash strewn around.

The city finally was able to come up with a plan and offered these homes for the price of $1... the conditions were you had to occupy, make $5,000 in improvements over 5 years and at the end of 5 years the home was yours for $1... Just painting, fixing the windows, steps and a roof was enough to cover the 5k in improvements.

These were homes that people just walked away from and were lost for back taxes... The idea was it was better for everyone to get them back on the tax rolls and stop the urban decay...

I still go by some of these $1 homes... today they are in the 250k to 350k range.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:17 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,782,865 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
ok, let's assume that prop 13 was overturned tomorrow. Do you really think they would go reappraise every home in California and set the tax rate at the current value and increase the tax by thousands or tens of thousands of dollars overnight? That ain't gonna happen, they would probably add a small annual percentage increase to the tax of homes where the taxable basis is less than the current appraised value and continue charging that until the two numbers were the same, but that could take 10-40 years.

So my suggestion to you is that if you really want to buy a house, go to Merced.
I already own a home.

Sure a change can have a slow ramp up period, maybe over 5 years and over the same period the tax rate can be lowered for everyone over the same time period.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:22 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,782,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Try reality not theory. Right now homes are selling for more and more, with minimal price fluctuation and new homes that are being built are VERY expensive because their is a demand for them and buyers ready for them. Higher taxes might drop a million dollar home but so far no indication of it AS each new development is more expensive than the last so cost at any level, tax or value, is not an issue to the buyers. So who cares in any event? Why hurt people so some others cn buy. That at best is a wash and leaves some hurt and some happy and ... prices would keep going up.

Supply and demand , yep the demand exists right now even at very high prices and the supply is not enough to drive prices down sooo. the theory is matching reality.
When the supply increases the demand will drop correspondingly. Unless you believe that demand mirrors supply instead of having an inverse relationship.

So you are fine hurting the younger generation, who havnt had entire life to save and earn, instead of having an equitable tax system.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:59 PM
 
Location: CA
1,716 posts, read 2,492,053 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodie2shoes View Post
Because state income tax is nothing. It's 13% but with deductions and all that. It's comes down lower than that.

What we really need to get rid of is the 30%+ Federal Income Tax.

What I have a problem with is the Federal Income Tax that CA pays. Over $400 BILLION. The highest of any states. That money is siphoned out of CA to support the Poor Red States who don't pay any income tax and who are leaching off the System

CA needs to secede. Imagine what we can do with that $400 billion each year.
But would the "new CA" need a national defense? Or, a boarder wall? Or, will Nevada pay for the CA boarder wall?
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 25,996,463 times
Reputation: 33867
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
I already own a home. Sure a change can have a slow ramp up period, maybe over 5 years and over the same period the tax rate can be lowered for everyone over the same time period.
The tax rate lowered??? so you think that without prop 13 the tax rate would be less than 1%? And no, a 5 year 'ramp up' would not work, any law that would raise grandma's property tax from $1,000 a year to $20,000 over a 5 year period would never pass, and any legislator suggesting it would lose their re-election. As I said, "IF" prop 13 was repealed the tax of long time residents would probably be raised by a percent or two a year in addition to their normal tax rate & since I am sure prop 13 will never be repealed the whole discussion is kind of silly

Last edited by 2sleepy; 11-30-2016 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 25,996,463 times
Reputation: 33867
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
When the supply increases the demand will drop correspondingly. Unless you believe that demand mirrors supply instead of having an inverse relationship.
So you are fine hurting the younger generation, who havnt had entire life to save and earn, instead of having an equitable tax system.
As I said if you eliminated prop 13 and raised taxes on long time homeowners a small amount each year there is absolutely no reason to believe that there would be any measurable increase in supply. As it is, seniors die every day and their houses are put up for sale, other seniors sell their California home to go live in another state. Forcing higher taxes on long term residents is not going to increase supply enough to impact home prices.

And the system is equitable, everyone pays the same rate, everyone pays tax on what the appraised value of their home WHEN they buy it how in the world is that not equitable?
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:22 AM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,470,995 times
Reputation: 23225
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
When the supply increases the demand will drop correspondingly. Unless you believe that demand mirrors supply instead of having an inverse relationship.

So you are fine hurting the younger generation, who havnt had entire life to save and earn, instead of having an equitable tax system.
Everyone is young once...

Young couples do buy homes... even in the SF Bay Area.

Posted many times about a young High School couple whose wedding I attend when he became a Bay Area Police Officer and she started working as a Registered Nurse... both, the first in their family to attend college... she is Filipina and he is African American.

At 25 they were the proud owners of a single family home in San Leandro and they did it on their own.
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