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View Poll Results: Would you support a secession?
Absolutely. 88 40.37%
I would vote against it, but would stay in California regardless of the outcome. 46 21.10%
I would vote against it, and leave if California seceded. 84 38.53%
Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-08-2017, 10:49 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,784,028 times
Reputation: 6509

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Your opposition has been unmistakably tacit ... and you just affirmed it (bold above).

So, you are for liberty as long as it's not liberal liberty. Roflmfao.
Progressives aren't for liberty and progressives run this state.

Only 1/3 of California's support the measure anyways. I know californias don't like trump, but leaving the union is cutting over your arm because you have a hang nail

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...new-poll-finds

 
Old 03-08-2017, 10:50 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,627 posts, read 16,153,308 times
Reputation: 19703
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Or would California want access to the 87% of GDP they are leaving?

Not to mention how California would be dependent on US for both energy and water to a lesser extent.

California has no leverage. Especially with its history of poor tax structure for business, over regulation and an unwillingness to utilize natural resourcee and desire to increase the welfare state. It is a recipe for disaster.
Why wouldn't the rest of the nation welcome trade access for California? Where exactly in America do we have businesses turning away money on ideological principles?

Energy? Brotherman, we are the 2nd or 3rd leading oil producer in the nation. Plus solar potential? Wind? Know about our desert areas?

Water? Heard of far northern California? How about the Pacific ocean (desal)?

But most importantly, have you head of non-adversarial alliances for trade, defense ... etc. I rest my case (because you have none).
 
Old 03-08-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,627 posts, read 16,153,308 times
Reputation: 19703
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Progressives aren't for liberty and progressives run this state.
Ah, and there we have it! The ideological / idio-illogical wall!
 
Old 03-08-2017, 10:59 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,784,028 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Does the U.S. have favorable trade relationships with Japan and Germany? And France and Great Britain? And ... Why wouldn't it have favorable trade relationships with California? That's what Stanley and Gentoo have been pointing out for 60 or so pages here. This assumption of adversarial relationships is completely unfounded.

All California has to offer is the port of L.A.? Nuts. Literally and figuratively. We have almonds. Everyone knows the nation is addicted to almonds and we grow almost the whole world's supply. Case closed. End of story. ... But, seriously, you do not understand the difference between a single market size of 40 million (CA) compared to 7 million (WA)? Okay, add Oregon to Washington as area served by the Ports of Seattle and Tacoma. Now you are up to a market 1/4 the size of California. But wait, there's more! as they say on late night tee-vee informercials. There's Idaho and Montana! Maybe even Wyoming!

Com'on Shooter. Get real.

Why would 2/3rds of the states vote to oust California? Ask Trump supporters. Ask Herman Cain. They hate us out there, bub. "They'd" love to get rid of blue California to advance the chances of conservative federal control. For starters.
The ports don't serve the state, they serve the country. LA port is the only resource the state has the Feds would hurt to really lose. Everything else can be replaced easily. Ultimately over time the infrastructure point would relocate to Washington to distribute goods the US.

California would still be fighting if jurisprudence while the majority of medium and large companies left. Companies hate uncertainty. California leaving, creating an entire set of laws and the following jurisprudence over decades will drive out many companies. This coupled with ca portion of the debt, a couple trillion dollars and a diminishing industry would be terrible for the state.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,784,028 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Why wouldn't the rest of the nation welcome trade access for California? Where exactly in America do we have businesses turning away money on ideological principles?

Energy? Brotherman, we are the 2nd or 3rd leading oil producer in the nation. Plus solar potential? Wind? Know about our desert areas?

Water? Heard of far northern California? How about the Pacific ocean (desal)?

But most importantly, have you head of non-adversarial alliances for trade, defense ... etc. I rest my case (because you have none).
Look up the costs for desal, how much would it cost to create clean water for crops and then pump it to the Central Valley. California has blocked any expansion oil exploration. Is California all the sudden going to be for fracking and nuclear? Solar is a joke large scale.


You and other seem to forget how much federal land is owned in the state, especially north and eastern California. Why would the federal government hand that over?

You keep thinking the federal government t is just going to bow down and ha d over all investments and resources it controls in the state without getting anything in return.


Like I said before the state has zero leverage and 2/3 of state would not approve of California is leaving. Let alone enough Californians even voting for the measure.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 11:11 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,784,028 times
Reputation: 6509
Just wondering how the state would pay for current Medicare and social security recipients? Since all that federal funding would stop.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 11:24 AM
 
24,348 posts, read 26,782,334 times
Reputation: 19827
I remember not too long ago Californians making fun of whiney Texans for considering this idea and now Californians are the whiney babies considering it. Hypocritesssss lol
 
Old 03-08-2017, 12:26 PM
 
911 posts, read 587,931 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
The ports don't serve the state, they serve the country. LA port is the only resource the state has the Feds would hurt to really lose. Everything else can be replaced easily. Ultimately over time the infrastructure point would relocate to Washington to distribute goods the US.
Is california the countrys largest state? Or not? Therefore does the port of LA serve the state? Or not. Of course the respective ports serve their respective regions. And our state is the largest market in the nation while Washington and Oregon tegether are about 1/4 rthe size with just as far and difficult a journey to ship forward to other markets. Washington and Oregon are not likely to ever come very close to the size of the California market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
California would still be fighting if jurisprudence while the majority of medium and large companies left. Companies hate uncertainty. California leaving, creating an entire set of laws and the following jurisprudence over decades will drive out many companies. This coupled with ca portion of the debt, a couple trillion dollars and a diminishing industry would be terrible for the state.
Again, why do you insist companies would leave? Why are you convinced of an adversarial relationship? Most countries in the world are cooperative.

Companies hate uncertainty? Is that why oil companies operate aggressively at great expense in the middle east and other geopolitical hot spots? All kinds of corporations operate all over the uncertain world. They go where they can profit. Does Apple make iPhones in China and sell them in Nigeria or not?

And again where do you get the notion that California would have to pay "its portion of the debt?" What portion would that be? How would you calculate that? As posed to you before would it be 1/50th? In which case you are suggesting that small and or bugger poor states like Mississippi and Wyoming would owe equal share to California - which is crazy. But most curious is what new formed nation ever purchased its independence from its mother country?
 
Old 03-08-2017, 12:38 PM
 
911 posts, read 587,931 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Look up the costs for desal, how much would it cost to create clean water for crops and then pump it to the Central Valley. California has blocked any expansion oil exploration. Is California all the sudden going to be for fracking and nuclear? Solar is a joke large scale.
Why would we have to desal all the water for the central valley? Desal is operational now in the state and cost effective for the regions it serves or it wouldnt be used. We only need to supplement with desal. Plus, the more technology advances driven by need, the lower costs run.

"Solar is a joke"?" Tell that to Germany with its larger population and higher GDP than California, to say nothing of far less sunshine to utilize. They are massively transitioning to solar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
You and other seem to forget how much federal land is owned in the state, especially north and eastern California. Why would the federal government hand that over?

You keep thinking the federal government t is just going to bow down and ha d over all investments and resources it controls in the state without getting anything in return.
You still havent provided an example of any new nation that bought its independence. Yes it just gets handed over. What "resources and investments" do the feds leverage and use in the state? Mostly you are talking about vast tracts of raw land earning nothing for the feds. National parklands and forests cost the feds more money to maintain than any return received.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
. Like I said before the state has zero leverage and 2/3 of state would not approve of California is leaving. Let alone enough Californians even voting for the measure.
Yes you said before. Over and over the same things that have been debunked. You and most every other person posting here. No matter how many times you are confronted with realities you continue to claim its impossible. World history proves you wrong in every regard.
 
Old 03-08-2017, 12:46 PM
 
911 posts, read 587,931 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Just wondering how the state would pay for current Medicare and social security recipients? Since all that federal funding would stop.
Asked and nswered at least a dozen times in this thread. California pays out more to the federal treasury than it gets back. Medicre and SS comes out of those monies. The feds arent supporting this state. You also fail to recognize the obvious: out of 196 nations inthe world, scores and scores of which have far less of an economy and revenue than California, all have medical and social security type coverages. We are the sixth most powerful economy on earth. If 190 smaller economies can create systems and do business witheaxh other, most certainly California can.
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