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Old 02-22-2017, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
38,086 posts, read 18,046,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
True and no avoiding that reality. If they let them out, lower the sentence, etc, what are they doing to help them to move away from, shall we say the tendency, to commit crime? Reducing the penalty encourages it, not discourages it.
Counties have been given large sums of money to develop rehab programs, job training, sober living housing, and mental health counseling for the parolees they supervise. It will take some time to determine whether those efforts are effective in reducing recidivism.

Most criminologists agree that celerity and certainty of punishment deter crime more effectively than severity of punishment.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-...al-Justice.pdf

https://www.nap.edu/read/18613/chapter/7#134

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...blication_list
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:32 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,596,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Counties have been given large sums of money to develop rehab programs, job training, sober living housing, and mental health counseling for the parolees they supervise. It will take some time to determine whether those efforts are effective in reducing recidivism.

Most criminologists agree that celerity and certainty of punishment deter crime more effectively than severity of punishment.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-...al-Justice.pdf

https://www.nap.edu/read/18613/chapter/7#134

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...blication_list
Such aid has been available for years and is doing some good, but the problem is increasing.

Speedy and certainty of judgement are inhibitors for sure, however severity comes in with repeat offenders. If the first term was of no effect then either longer terms or a harder life in prison. After all if the first punishment did not help them see the need to avoid such actions, what will?
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
38,086 posts, read 18,046,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Such aid has been available for years and is doing some good, but the problem is increasing.

Speedy and certainty of judgement are inhibitors for sure, however severity comes in with repeat offenders. If the first term was of no effect then either longer terms or a harder life in prison. After all if the first punishment did not help them see the need to avoid such actions, what will?
A fair number of offenders age out of criminal behavior as they approach their 40's or 50's. Same with serious drug addiction, there aren't very many 60 year old heroin addicts, they either died young - or it was too hard to keep up with what is required to supply yourself with a hundred dollars worth of dope a day so they transition to alcohol or quit.

But there are some people whose crimes are serious enough and who have been unable or unwilling to change their behavior that we should probably just park them in prison and leave them there.

I have often wondered if monetary punishment might work as well or better than incarceration for property crimes. For example you steal a car you will surrender every asset you own and every penny you earn until you repay the victim, and if you don't have a job we will give you one cleaning kennels at the SPCA
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:09 PM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,592,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
True and no avoiding that reality. If they let them out, lower the sentence, etc, what are they doing to help them to move away from, shall we say the tendency, to commit crime? Reducing the penalty encourages it, not discourages it.
Yup. This is not even a debatable point.

FBI/NIH/Pew Research all have similar studies or statistics that show the most relevant factor in committing crimes is a history of... committing crimes. It doesn't even isolate itself to various stratum of crime either. Look at any "murderer's" criminal history, 9/10 times it will be filled with "lower level" crime like assault, theft, larson, etc.

Prop 47/57 and AB109 are only adding to the problem, and only California's Democrat politicians think otherwise, ignoring the actual reality.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:11 PM
 
6,079 posts, read 3,592,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
A fair number of offenders age out of criminal behavior as they approach their 40's or 50's.
Can you cite your statistics/studies that show a trend/curve that shows criminals "get out of crime" due to age and not other factors as your are trying to claim?

That argument seems suspect at best especially since you haven't cited any studies, and it doesn't pass the "logic sniff test" either.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:14 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,596,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post

I have often wondered if monetary punishment might work as well or better than incarceration for property crimes. For example you steal a car you will surrender every asset you own and every penny you earn until you repay the victim, and if you don't have a job we will give you one cleaning kennels at the SPCA
Sounds good, but then they would say who will take care of my family, etc and ... they will be set free.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
38,086 posts, read 18,046,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Sounds good, but then they would say who will take care of my family, etc and ... they will be set free.
Who takes care of their family when they are in prison?
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:14 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,596,679 times
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Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Who takes care of their family when they are in prison?
Shouldn't they think about that before committing the crime? Or do they care so little they do not care what happens to them? The responsibility rests first with the one contemplating the crime and then with the one staying with a criminal. If they have no idea about the criminal activity or are trying to get away from the idiot, then the Gov't can help them.
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
38,086 posts, read 18,046,672 times
Reputation: 27996
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Shouldn't they think about that before committing the crime? Or do they care so little they do not care what happens to them? The responsibility rests first with the one contemplating the crime and then with the one staying with a criminal. If they have no idea about the criminal activity or are trying to get away from the idiot, then the Gov't can help them.
I agree, I was just responding to your comment regarding their families complaining if all their wages had to go to pay off their victims.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:36 AM
 
Location: So Ca
21,119 posts, read 18,720,942 times
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The overwhelming grief felt by Whittier Police Chief Jeff Piper following the brutal killing Monday of Officer Keith Boyer is understandable. But public officials need to be held accountable for false or misleading statements that are calculated to sway opinion on important policy matters, even if those comments come during times of great duress. And unfortunately, Piper misused the occasion of Boyer’s traumatic death to lash out at recent criminal justice reforms:

No, criminal justice reforms didn't cause a Whittier police officer's killing - LA Times
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