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Old 03-10-2008, 10:24 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,601,375 times
Reputation: 638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkbatca View Post
Didn't you just contradict yourself from your previous statement, where we supposedly have a credential system on the books?
I didn't think it was necessary to rehash the entire previous, lengthy discussion but, since you apparently missed several parts of it ...

Obviously the courts are trying to enforce the credentialing requirement where, for all practical purposes, parents haven't been meeting basic education requirements in order to home school their kids.

Is that clear enough for you now? Or do I need to explain it further?

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Old 03-10-2008, 10:49 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,601,375 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobmw View Post
Perhaps the great weather will enable Califronia to maintain the momentum that hard working business owners have created for this state. Or perhaps a slower economy combined with an exodus of small buisiess owners will change CA into a much different place. And those with your attitude may be sorry that you chased those businesss owners away.
The only thing I'm sorry about is that you guys are still here. If this is representative of the people who are leaving the state then, good riddance ... by all means ... please go.

Let me be clear: I DO NOT want to live in a state that fails to enforce basic education requirements, basic professional licensing requirements, basic worker rights like lunch breaks, overtime, etc.

As you are so fond of pointing out ... here's plenty of other states where you guys can avoid all of those requirements.

I don't want children being taught by people who have no teaching credentials. I don't want employers who won't even give their employees lunch breaks (as posted recently in the Idaho forum), the list goes on and on ...

People have been making this same doom and gloom prediction for decades now yet, California just keeps chugging along. As I've said before, California will do just fine without you.

Last edited by sheri257; 03-10-2008 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 03-10-2008, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,046 posts, read 1,952,656 times
Reputation: 821
Its all about $$$ schools are funded based on pupil head count. FYI charter schools were not banned.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:35 AM
 
2,011 posts, read 3,272,290 times
Reputation: 1722
[quote=Nick682;3090857]

Whoever used the example earlier that crackheads are gonna home school their kids is probably smoking crack themselves. [quote]

Or maybe you need to sharpen your own reading comprehension skills before you accuse people of being crackheads.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,355 posts, read 3,889,774 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
The only thing I'm sorry about is that you guys are still here. If this is representative of the people who are leaving the state then, good riddance ... by all means ... please go...

People have been making this same doom and gloom predication for decades now yet, California just keeps chugging along. As I've said before, California will do just fine without you.
There are plenty of politicians who share your view. They are betting that enough companies can't or won't move. But since you wishing us good riddance, I take it you don't mind American companies sending jobs offshore. Good riddance to them too, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
I don't want children being taught by people who have no teaching credentials. I don't want employers who won't even give their employees lunch breaks (as posted recently in the Idaho forum), the list goes on and on ...
Then I would suggest that you make sure your children, if you have any, are taught by credentialed teachers. (And don't work for someone who won't give you a lunch break.) But don't deny people the opportunity to teach their own children without credentials. That is a basic right and responsibility of parents, to teach their children. Who is the government to come in and say no? I don't mind homeschooled children having to pass the assessment tests that public schools give. But to come in and say I can't homeschool my children - even though I have more college education than most teachers - because I don't have a teaching credential is going too far.

What's next? Are you going to suggest that kids be limited to a certain amount of junk food because you don't want them to have more? How about limiting their tv or internet time? How about forcing kids to exercise a certain number of minutes per day? Or making them eat a certain number of vegetables per day? In fact, let's also count their calories because even though we don't have enough funding for PE programs our children are getting too fat... um sorry, obese. And let's have the teachers ask to make sure parents are doing these things and require teachers to report parents who don't. Let's set a statewide bedtime for kids too so that they won't be tired in school.

There is no end to the "good" things that we could legislate. But there is also no end to the unintended consequences either. It is better to give people freedom to make their own choices regardless of whether you or I agree with their decisions.
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Old 03-10-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Location: In Transition
1,304 posts, read 887,615 times
Reputation: 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
I didn't think it was necessary to rehash the entire previous, lengthy discussion but, since you apparently missed several parts of it ...

Obviously the courts are trying to enforce the credentialing requirement where, for all practical purposes, parents haven't been meeting basic education requirements in order to home school their kids.

Is that clear enough for you now? Or do I need to explain it further?

Apparently you didn't bother to read what I've written either, so instead of going back and forth, how about this?

1) OK currently California has a law that home-schooling parents have to have credentials to home school. That was recently reinforced by a recent court ruling. We've got that point, so let's "move on", as progressives like to say, shall we?

OK, now pay attention and understand the following:

2) Now, let me add to (1) where I say it's quite apparent that the current credential system is not working in CA, as multiple points of evidence such as SAT scores and lots of anecdotal evidence.

3) Because of (2), we should have a proposition to change the current law from a broken credential based system to a results oriented testing based system, to allow home schoolers more flexibility. This is consistent with other forms of gov't management philosophy and is quite doable, reasonable, and fair to home schoolers.

Hope you followed that!

So are you going to address idea (3), or are we still sticking to the "credentials uber alles?"
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Old 03-10-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: In Transition
1,304 posts, read 887,615 times
Reputation: 664
Default Why Now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheri257 View Post
Obviously the courts are trying to enforce the credentialing requirement where, for all practical purposes, parents haven't been meeting basic education requirements in order to home school their kids.
Here's another thing that bugs me about this issue. If credentials are SO important, why weren't school systems enforcing this issue? In fact, I'll bet those school systems were providing programs to home schoolers, right? Who is supposed to be enforcing this issue, if not the CA school systems?

Why didn't we hear anything about it until now? There were probably TONS of cases where insufficient home schooled kids were being passed through, I simply refuse to believe this was the first case ever!!! Let me guess why, CA budget crisis?

There's just way too many holes in this plot...

Last edited by jkbatca; 03-10-2008 at 02:58 PM..
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Old 03-10-2008, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
603 posts, read 1,466,935 times
Reputation: 258
Default ...back to the homeschool debate...

While I do not agree with the CA law stating parents need to be certified to teach their children, I do believe parents should submit information to the Department of Public Education regarding their educational plan, curriculum, and how their children are progressing towards the "3 R's"-reading, writing, and arithmetic. As a parent, if I chose to home school, I would want someone looking over my shoulder from time to time to ensure I'm meeting my children's educational needs.

I believe homeschooling requires some accountability; however, enforcing parents to obtain a teaching certificate before allowing them to home school is not practical. The law does suggest that the state of California is trying to eliminate homeschooling. Homeschooling parents already make tons of sacrifices to educate their children; requiring them to obtain a teaching certificate is expensive and time-consuming. While educators learn a lot of useful information about educational methods and strategies, I think many parents can do a good job with their own fund of knowledge, love, and dedication. Nobody knows their children like their own parents. Parents have the advantage of knowing their children so intimately they can use this to their advantage while educating them. Also, many education courses address classroom management strategies which for a homeschooling parent would be a waste of time.

As an adult who attended Catholic schools from 1st grade through college, my best teachers were the priests and nuns who did not have teaching degrees but a vast fund of knowledge and a mountain of dedication. And no, I was never hit with a ruler, spanked, or molested
while in Catholic school-thankfully!
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Old 03-10-2008, 04:51 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,601,375 times
Reputation: 638
Here's a link describing some of the credential requirements ...

http://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/leaflets/cl561c.pdf

One the requirements is to pass a series of exams so they can verify that you actually know most of the material you're teaching.

Maybe you guys don't think that's important but, it seems pretty important to me.

Yep ... California is really crazy. Expecting people who teach to actually know the material they're teaching ... wow ...

That's really insane ... what will those California nut jobs think of next?


Last edited by sheri257; 03-10-2008 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 03-10-2008, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,355 posts, read 3,889,774 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by #Littledog View Post
While I do not agree with the CA law stating parents need to be certified to teach their children, I do believe parents should submit information to the Department of Public Education regarding their educational plan, curriculum, and how their children are progressing towards the "3 R's"-reading, writing, and arithmetic. As a parent, if I chose to home school, I would want someone looking over my shoulder from time to time to ensure I'm meeting my children's educational needs.
It is great that you would want someone looking over your shoulder. That is a fine choice for you but why make that a requirement for all homeschooling parents? If you require homeschooled children to pass the same assessment tests as everyone else then who cares about the method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by #Littledog View Post
I believe homeschooling requires some accountability; however, enforcing parents to obtain a teaching certificate before allowing them to home school is not practical. The law does suggest that the state of California is trying to eliminate homeschooling. Homeschooling parents already make tons of sacrifices to educate their children; requiring them to obtain a teaching certificate is expensive and time-consuming. While educators learn a lot of useful information about educational methods and strategies, I think many parents can do a good job with their own fund of knowledge, love, and dedication. Nobody knows their children like their own parents. Parents have the advantage of knowing their children so intimately they can use this to their advantage while educating them. Also, many education courses address classroom management strategies which for a homeschooling parent would be a waste of time.
I could not agree with you more on this paragraph!
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