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Old 03-12-2008, 02:41 AM
 
603 posts, read 777,753 times
Reputation: 211

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkbatca View Post
These questions go to the absolute core of the argument. It should be the parent who determines if they are qualified or not, not the state, you, or I. Especially not the state, who can be influenced by groups who do not have the kids best interest at heart. However, someone MUST make sure that IF a parent home schools, then those kids are independently tested to ensure they know what they need to know. If they do not meet the test, no more home schooling and off to public school they go.

Keep in mind that when you see a spelling bee, for example, a lot of the kids who are winning are home schooled. Think about that when you ponder if home schooling adequately teaches kids or not...

There are plenty of people who can teach who do not meet the state's current credential criteria. Just as importantly, there are credentialed teachers who apparently are NOT teaching kids adequately. Therefore, logically, credentials, in of itself, are not sufficient to determine who can teach their kids. No matter how much trolling, "staying on message" liberal debate tactics, or smugness is employed, none of it can override these facts!
So "credentials" as you suggest are "logically,,,,not sufficient to determine who can teach"? If credentials are irrelevant, what criteria do you suggest? How about in daycare? Or college? This idea sounds just absurd as another poster's claim that:

"If it were required to have a license before having a baby, most of the world's problems would be solved. If there were no children born out of wedlock, and no fatherless homes, the prisons would be empty and there would be jobs for everyone. No over crowded schools, no need for home schooling., no gangs, no poverty..."

WOW???? REALLY? It's that simple??? Crime and poverty would ceast to exist if everyone just had a mom and dad at home?????

Come on. Get real. If just anyone could homeschool, do you really think student achievement would increase? And if all kids had mommies and daddies there would be no crime??

There definitely needs to be some kind of criteria for home-schooling, as evidenced by the line of thought expressed on this thread.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 4,268,665 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
So "credentials" as you suggest are "logically,,,,not sufficient to determine who can teach"? If credentials are irrelevant, what criteria do you suggest? How about in daycare? Or college? This idea sounds just absurd as another poster's claim that:

"If it were required to have a license before having a baby, most of the world's problems would be solved. If there were no children born out of wedlock, and no fatherless homes, the prisons would be empty and there would be jobs for everyone. No over crowded schools, no need for home schooling., no gangs, no poverty..."

WOW???? REALLY? It's that simple??? Crime and poverty would ceast to exist if everyone just had a mom and dad at home?????

Come on. Get real. If just anyone could homeschool, do you really think student achievement would increase? And if all kids had mommies and daddies there would be no crime??

There definitely needs to be some kind of criteria for home-schooling, as evidenced by the line of thought expressed on this thread.
I think that most of the people making this argument against home schooling without a credential are clueless. I have several friends in CA that have home schooled their children and they are affiliated with a private school. All their grades are given by the private school. Their testing is the same as the private school as is the majority of their homework. They even, in the case of one of their kids, played athletics at the private school even though they did not actually attend the school on daily basis.

These anti-home school people act like these home schools are a bunch of lazy ignorant people that are too lazy to take their kids to school. This could not be further from the truth. These parents are dedicated people that take the time to learn how to properly teach their kids. My friends have degrees but not teaching credentials. Even the state of CA allows people with degrees to short cut the credential requirements if needed. These people spend more time making sure that their kids are getting a good education than the majority of parents that have their kids in public schools. Why do you think kids struggle so much in public school? It is a lack of parental involvement in the system.

The public school system is broken and they think that the way to fix it is shut down home schools. What a fantastic idea. Let's set out education system back even further from the civilized nations of the world. Whatever we are doing now in public schools is not working and to try to blame it on home schools is truly pathetic and merely a diversion from the real problem.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:37 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,304 posts, read 899,428 times
Reputation: 664
Question Huh?

I said: "However, someone MUST make sure that IF a parent home schools, then those kids are independently tested to ensure they know what they need to know. If they do not meet the test, no more home schooling and off to public school they go."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
So "credentials" as you suggest are "logically,,,,not sufficient to determine who can teach"? If credentials are irrelevant, what criteria do you suggest?

<questionable attempt to lump my post with some other post for some unknown reason...>
I just give up on all these CA taught posters... I'm out of here...

I will leave with a thought. How are lawyers permitted to operate in CA? The answer will apparently surprise you.
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:27 PM
 
385 posts, read 1,084,066 times
Reputation: 196
Clueless. Hardly. PM me and I will drive you out into the wilds of New Mexico and visit some homeschooling places. You may all be brilliant in California and perfectly able and willing to homeschool but, I dare say, the wider picture on this issue may not be so rosy.

Also, I am not against it. I am just mystifyed by the number of people who feel they are capable of being teachers. The people, anecdotally speaking, that I have encountered are themselves clueless and they homeschool! My neighbor homeschooled both her kids in Texas. One of them tried to matriculate back into high school and couldn't. He spent large chunks of his day standing in his yard. There's a curriculum for you.

My sister- in-law homeschooled both her kids from K-12. They were "brillant," and tested well by all Calif. standards. Both are attending community college part time at best and both are in counseling for depression. Unrelated, probably. But here is the thing. I think those issues that they have would have been apparent to someone outside of their parents long before this. They did go play on basketball teams with other homeschoolers and go on field trips, but guess what, one of their parents was always present. They should have been away from their parents for part of their days growing up.

Also, somebody mentioned spelling bee champions. My kid is local spelling bee champion (granted we only are a population of about 800,000) and I didn't home school her. It doesn't mean that I haven't read to her for at least 30 minutes every night of her life save a few vacations here and there. It doesn't mean I don't spend time helping her with homework. That is the other thing that gets me. Often those of us who actually have questions regarding homeschooling are lumped in with people that are essentially absentee parents who don't give a darn about their kids.

I venture to say that many of you speaking are not homeschoolers, have no intention of homeschooling and this issue is not very personal to you. It is more about the court's decision and your concern that judges are acting without regard to the public good somehow. I respect that and understand your concern.

But, the issue for me is about how these things actually impact our day to day lives. The slippery slope idea is not one that grabs me now and never has. Besides, there are other things that are a much bigger issue than this that do impact many people in this country and we have been largely mum as a nation.
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Old 03-12-2008, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,831 posts, read 4,268,665 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimK View Post
Clueless. Hardly. PM me and I will drive you out into the wilds of New Mexico and visit some homeschooling places. You may all be brilliant in California and perfectly able and willing to homeschool but, I dare say, the wider picture on this issue may not be so rosy.

Also, I am not against it. I am just mystifyed by the number of people who feel they are capable of being teachers. The people, anecdotally speaking, that I have encountered are themselves clueless and they homeschool! My neighbor homeschooled both her kids in Texas. One of them tried to matriculate back into high school and couldn't. He spent large chunks of his day standing in his yard. There's a curriculum for you.

My sister- in-law homeschooled both her kids from K-12. They were "brillant," and tested well by all Calif. standards. Both are attending community college part time at best and both are in counseling for depression. Unrelated, probably. But here is the thing. I think those issues that they have would have been apparent to someone outside of their parents long before this. They did go play on basketball teams with other homeschoolers and go on field trips, but guess what, one of their parents was always present. They should have been away from their parents for part of their days growing up.

Also, somebody mentioned spelling bee champions. My kid is local spelling bee champion (granted we only are a population of about 800,000) and I didn't home school her. It doesn't mean that I haven't read to her for at least 30 minutes every night of her life save a few vacations here and there. It doesn't mean I don't spend time helping her with homework. That is the other thing that gets me. Often those of us who actually have questions regarding homeschooling are lumped in with people that are essentially absentee parents who don't give a darn about their kids.

I venture to say that many of you speaking are not homeschoolers, have no intention of homeschooling and this issue is not very personal to you. It is more about the court's decision and your concern that judges are acting without regard to the public good somehow. I respect that and understand your concern.

But, the issue for me is about how these things actually impact our day to day lives. The slippery slope idea is not one that grabs me now and never has. Besides, there are other things that are a much bigger issue than this that do impact many people in this country and we have been largely mum as a nation.
I agree with accountability for home schools. Children should be tested and the effectiveness of the home schooling will reflect in the test results.

Any intelligent person has the capable of teaching in my opinion, from an intelligence standpoint. It is however similar to coaching. A great player does not always make a good coach. In the same sense just because you have a credential does not necessarily make you a good teacher and you can be a good teacher without a credential, Raising for children I am sure that if I did not have to work to support a family I could have home schooled my children.

It should be the results of the teaching not having a credential that should be judged.
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Old 03-12-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Full time RV"er
2,403 posts, read 3,689,612 times
Reputation: 1358
Default sheri 257

god bless you ! as you have stated here you have the right to your thought as to how this counrty and state should be managed , who should be licensed to teach their own children . And as was stated by another posting that they had a RN license to do their job . next people in california will be required to have the same license to give their kids an asprin ? and as to lawyers and their license. you need their ( the Bar Association ) license to charge for their services to represent you in court. But as i have done for the past 3-1/2 years, practice law in Superior Court, State of California. all this without a license !with a 10th grade public education, self taught with asistance from a person without a teaching degree or licence.just first hand knowaledge. and you can ask what this has to do with the issue here ? very simple>>>>> I WON the case against a CITY! and now i can help others learn about our Constitutional Rights , how to defend themselfs. Without your so call licenses or permission from the Government! Because this i did not learn nor was i taught this by those licensed people called teachers ! WHY?because the Government does not want us to know how to take control of our own lives ! They think we are all stupied~?????

Last edited by Fighter 1; 03-12-2008 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:47 PM
 
55 posts, read 128,718 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
However, someone MUST make sure that IF a parent home schools, then those kids are independently tested to ensure they know what they need to know. If they do not meet the test, no more home schooling and off to public school they go.
What happens if the public school child doesn't pass the test? Do they send him home? No.... they wait until he's at least 1-3 years behind his peers, has been subjected to teasing, his self esteem is destroyed and his hatred for learning is only second to his hatred for school. Then they write him an IEP so that they can get extra money for his education. Money that doesn't translate to extra help for that particular child nor his learning problem.

California public schools haven't made the grade in years. They fall below the "norm" in this nation. So maybe we should send all the kids home.
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Full time RV"er
2,403 posts, read 3,689,612 times
Reputation: 1358
Default say what? get real !

If you have been listening and know how to read !!!! the California school system has been LOWERING.... the test scores so that every one will pass, because they don't have room at the in so to speak < no money for new schools and like one school in Calimesa Ca. it sits . compleated , not being used because these educated city and school officials can't get the road finished to the school > How smart is that ,2 1/2 yrs. later they may use in 2009 .Enough is enough,at least the governor knows that this ruling is un constitutional and has all ready said he will reverse the judges ruling.
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:45 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,304 posts, read 899,428 times
Reputation: 664
Exclamation Well, OK, one more rant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blessings11 View Post
What happens if the public school child doesn't pass the test? Do they send him home? No.... they wait until he's at least 1-3 years behind his peers, has been subjected to teasing, his self esteem is destroyed and his hatred for learning is only second to his hatred for school. Then they write him an IEP so that they can get extra money for his education. Money that doesn't translate to extra help for that particular child nor his learning problem.

California public schools haven't made the grade in years. They fall below the "norm" in this nation. So maybe we should send all the kids home.
Well, I lied and will post one more time because my two kids are in the middle of this whole CA school system mess, and it just drives me up a wall and go into rant mode!

All of you have to either listen to Tom McClintock talk about how much we're spending for CA schools or read this. (http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/article_print.asp?PID=292 - broken link) We're now spending $12000 per pupil per year!!! $12,000. Per pupil. Per year. For my son's high school, that's enough money to level the school and build a new one every year!!!! I'm just speechless and gasping for air on how much money we waste in this state! How can any sane person tolerate this? This is just pure insanity, and yet noone wants to deal with this!

And yet, the last chance we've had to turn this around was in 2005 with propositions 74 through 77 on the ballot. Did we as Californians vote for this to change things? Nooooooooooo.... The teacher's union, who seem to always cry we don't have any money, ran pure slander and half-truth advertisements 24/7 for MONTHS on TV telling the idiots in CA not to vote for these props. They spent BILLIONS on this campaign, and the idiots listened. After this defeat, the teachers union and Democrats now believe they have a blank check they can spend any way they want. Don't believe me? Just listen to Perata say "we don't have a spending problem, just need to raise taxes." $12,000 per pupil per year, folks.

Instead of tackling this *%&#@ union / democratic legislature head on, what does everyone do? I'll send my kids to private school, home school, or (smartest move) leave the state altogether, so they won't have to deal with this 800 lb gorilla of an issue.

So guess where this rant is leading? As spending increases into the black hole called the CA school system, guess where the school systems are going to find more next? That's right, rake in all those home schooled kids into public school to get justification for more fed funding et al. The court ruling as of right now gives the school system the legal precedent to do this. That's right, you can stick your head in the sand, but in the end, you're leaving something else sticking out to get bit. And soon it WILL get bit. Until Californians as a whole FINALLY say, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take anymore" as opposed to "well, how can I get around the system", things are just going to get worse for EVERYONE!

OK, now I'm gone...

Last edited by jkbatca; 03-13-2008 at 01:08 AM..
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:21 AM
 
202 posts, read 607,669 times
Reputation: 103
I home school my kids and I let them do whatever they want. My philosophy is: they should decide what school is to them. For example when they are watching the "Simple Life" and other reality shows, it teaches them about reality.

They see commercials and that teaches them about advertising. Yah know, I teach them lots of stuff, like how to microwave a perfect bean burrito. Those things will be important in the future.
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