Not surprised to see CA in the lead! (Oxnard, Commerce: felony, living)

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Unlawful presence unless the person has a previous removal is not a crime, it's a civil offense, more commonly known as a tort. A tort, unlike a crime is not punishable by a jail or prison sentence.

I know the difference. However a crime is any illegal act in a general sense.

Mirriam Webster:
Definition of crime

1. 1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government; especially : a gross violation of law

Deportation is a punishment.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

I know the difference. However a crime is any illegal act in a general sense.
Mirriam Webster:
an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government; especially : a gross violation of law

Deportation is a punishment.

You know better, if you want to argue nonsense you can do so by yourself. If Congress had wanted it to be a crime, they wouldn't have taken criminalization of it out of the 2005 Sensenbrenner bill, but they didn't.
Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You know better, if you want to argue nonsense you can do so by yourself. If Congress had wanted it to be a crime, they wouldn't have taken criminalization of it out of the 2005 Sensenbrenner bill, but they didn't.
Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

From that link

Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country. - See more at: Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

We don't want illegals in our jails we want them deported, sounds good.

[taimaishu]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

From that link

Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country. - See more at: Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

We don't want illegals in our jails we want them deported, sounds good.

Agreed. Not sure why Trump is so silent on this issue. He needs to start deporting ALL illegals. Starting with the STEALTHY ones.

Canadian Immigrants Lead World In Illegal U.S. Visa Overstays, According To First-Ever DHS Estimates

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You know better, if you want to argue nonsense you can do so by yourself. If Congress had wanted it to be a crime, they wouldn't have taken criminalization of it out of the 2005 Sensenbrenner bill, but they didn't.
Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

Sincere question, even if you eliminated illegal entry from being a crime, do not illegal immigrants have to work? Usually that requires some form of identity theft or identity fraud. If they work under the table, isn't that tax evasion?

Also, if an immigrant is unlawfully present in the United States, the punishment is still deportation. Whether it's civil or criminal, it doesn't make a difference to the people who say that undocumented immigrants are a drain to the economy and resources.

Last, it doesn't matter if even only one percent of all illegal immigrants committed any crimes at all and they were Tibetan monks in terms of calmness, the issue still stands that they are here illegally or unlawfully present. That would be one percent of crime that we do not need. If they're working they're probably having to bypass laws around that.

I don't like the misdirecting of the issue at hand that they commit fewer crimes than natives or whatnot because no matter what the percentage is, the crux of the matter is that its still a percentage the country doesn't have to deal with.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

From that link

Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country. - See more at: Is Illegal Immigration a Crime? Improper Entry v. Unlawful Presence - FindLaw Blotter

We don't want illegals in our jails we want them deported, sounds good.

This is a serious question..if an illegal immigrant commits a serious crime in California, you just want to deport them and wait until they re-enter? Nevada Dept. of Corrections considered doing that to reduce their prison population a few years ago and the public let them know what a crap idea that was and they never brought it up again.

I don't want people to enter the country unlawfully either but the way to discourage unlawful entry is to deny them jobs. I've watched all the talk and chest pounding rhetoric about how we need to 'kick these people out' and nothing happens, and nothing significant will happen now either because you have the Chamber of Commerce, Wall Street, the construction industry and big Agra paying off legislators to make sure that e-verify will never pass. Business has actively supported illegal immigration for 40 years, I watched while they replaced entire unionized shops with bussed in illegals in the middle of the night and it's always been the same, the little guy who is hurt by it is pounding his fists and screaming while Congress and the President are laughing all the way to the bank. Believe me, Trump will dance around the edges of illegal immigration and throw out several hundreds of thousands of undocumented to shut his voters up but nothing will change, not until we take the money out of politics and pass something we can probably all agree on - e-verify

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Sincere question, even if you eliminated illegal entry from being a crime, do not illegal immigrants have to work? Usually that requires some form of identity theft or identity fraud. If they work under the table, isn't that tax evasion?

Also, if an immigrant is unlawfully present in the United States, the punishment is still deportation. Whether it's civil or criminal, it doesn't make a difference to the people who say that undocumented immigrants are a drain to the economy and resources.

Last, it doesn't matter if even only one percent of all illegal immigrants committed any crimes at all and they were Tibetan monks in terms of calmness, the issue still stands that they are here illegally or unlawfully present. That would be one percent of crime that we do not need. If they're working they're probably having to bypass laws around that.

I don't like the misdirecting of the issue at hand that they commit fewer crimes than natives or whatnot because no matter what the percentage is, the crux of the matter is that its still a percentage the country doesn't have to deal with.

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I never misdirected the issue, that was a different poster and I will let him make his case. The elephant in the room is that business likes illegal immigrants and business has a lot more juice with congress than you or I do.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I don't disagree with anything you said. And I never misdirected the issue, that was a different poster and I will let him make his case. The elephant in the room is that business likes illegal immigrants and business has a lot more juice with congress than you or I do.

No doubt. In fact I think that big business have invested in liberalism much more so than conservatism. The triple bottom line is basically now includes things such as social responsibility, environment, illegal immigration and identity politics. They think millennials are the future and since they're largely liberal, the future is liberalization and globalization. Big business is naturally pro-globalization and could give a hoot about national sovereignty.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by taimaishu

Agreed. Not sure why Trump is so silent on this issue. He needs to start deporting ALL illegals. Starting with the STEALTHY ones.

Canadian Immigrants Lead World In Illegal U.S. Visa Overstays, According To First-Ever DHS Estimates

lol he can't. Agra won't let him kick them all out. Also unless he is going to violate the constitution he will have a hard time sorting out who is unlawfully here and who isn't. That's why the target has been and still is primarily with criminal aliens, we know who they are and we have enough cause to deport them. After you round up all of them, what do you want to do, start kicking doors and demanding that people who haven't broken the law prove their citizenship?

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by expatCA

I know the difference. However a crime is any illegal act in a general sense.

Mirriam Webster:
Definition of crime

1. 1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government; especially : a gross violation of law

Deportation is a punishment.

Furthermore expat, whether you personally want to label it a crime or not, since it is not included as a crime in crime statistics then you can't use illegal entry in itself as an example of any part of the crime rate as statistically documented.

Numerous studies and research have shown that immigrants, including illegals especially, commit crimes at lower rates than the general population.