Remember How Great California Was? (San Francisco, Sacramento: low cost, beaches, kindergarten)

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by expatCA

It would be interesting to see how many "administrators" and non teaching positions exist in CA VS other States. It isn't just the $$ per student, it is the amount spent on students IN the class room, not the whole costs for everything.

It is a nationwide problem.





The inflation adjusted cost of K-12 keeps going up and up and up.

Compensation for teachers isn't outrageous. Even when you factor in excessively generous defined benefit pensions & retiree health care, teachers can live a good life but they are far from easy street. Ditto for Principals.

It isn't going to even more teachers -- the student/teacher ratio hasn't materially changed in decades -- at least not enough to account for the skyrocketing costs.

If the money isn't going to people directly involved in educating our kids, where is it going?

The inescapable conclusion is it is going to administrative bloat. The number of administrators per teacher keeps going up & up & up. Said differently, K-12 education productivity is declining -- output per unit of input. Output is the number of students while input is the total number of employees in the K-12 system including teachers, principals, bus drivers, custodians, and administrators.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by expatCA

By the way when Bill was a kid he had no computer to play with as he was born in 1955 so he would have been in middle school long before computers, duhh.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

At 13, he enrolled in the Lakeside School, a private preparatory school.[22] When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students.[23] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest.

See, isn't technology great?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

See, isn't technology great?

Yes, I was referring to computers like today. He obviously had an interest and his parents were smart enough to encourage him. I had one of the 1st computers and started programming, but unfortunately I was working and had a family and ........... no time. Glad he had the time.

What he worked with was a teletype and ... had no screen to stare at.

Notice also:

At 13, he enrolled in the Lakeside School, a private preparatory school.[22] When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students.[23] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest.

His mother was key to getting him to shave an interest and ... the time came from another class, not play time. I suspect he had a bit less play time though.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

It is a nationwide problem.

It isn't going to even more teachers -- the student/teacher ratio hasn't materially changed in decades -- at least not enough to account for the skyrocketing costs.

If the money isn't going to people directly involved in educating our kids, where is it going?

The inescapable conclusion is it is going to administrative bloat. The number of administrators per teacher keeps going up & up & up. Said differently, K-12 education productivity is declining -- output per unit of input. Output is the number of students while input is the total number of employees in the K-12 system including teachers, principals, bus drivers, custodians, and administrators.

Yep, CA just seems to do worse than some others, but it isn't just CA.

Unfortunately many administrative employees are friends of politicians and get a nice job. Bus drivers (where they actually exist any more) and custodians are oK as they are needed. Administrators ..... cushy jobs.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Yes, I was referring to computers like today. He obviously had an interest and his parents were smart enough to encourage him. I had one of the 1st computers and started programming, but unfortunately I was working and had a family and ........... no time. Glad he had the time.

What he worked with was a teletype and ... had no screen to stare at.

Notice also:

At 13, he enrolled in the Lakeside School, a private preparatory school.[22] When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the school's students.[23] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and was excused from math classes to pursue his interest.

His mother was key to getting him to shave an interest and ... the time came from another class, not play time. I suspect he had a bit less play time though.

Haha, yeah sure dude. Not moving the goal-posts at all. I'm glad you agree parents should be smart enough to encourage their kids to embrace technology, its a great path to skilled jobs.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Born there in 46,

We do share something in common, we were born in the same year But seriously you know you love California, it's in your blood

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Haha, yeah sure dude. Not moving the goal-posts at all. I'm glad you agree parents should be smart enough to encourage their kids to embrace technology, its a great path to skilled jobs.

Yes, it is. I am not against technology, I was just pointing out the problems it is creating for children. Smart parents will recognize and handle it and stupid ones won't. If the kids can handle technology, go for it as it is where a LOT of the future is headed. Mind you I have several Patents for very new technology, so I am not against such progress.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

We do share something in common, we were born in the same year But seriously you know you love California, it's in your blood

Absolutely. I love the State. I am just unhappy with how it has changed and what it is like now where I grew up; SoCal primarily OC. But that is life. The only constant is change.

[phantompilot]

Liberals have ruined the education system by dumbing it down to address the lowest common denominator, which in places like CA gets lower with every illegal that scurries across the border.

In some schools, the teachers are so busy and distracted managing the ESLs that are behind academically, linguistically, socially, and culturally, that actually teaching falls by the wayside. But everyone gets a participation trophy so YAY, we're "inclusive" and have paid the due lip service to "diversity" and "equality".

Nevermind the students can't add or read.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by phantompilot

Liberals have ruined the education system by dumbing it down to address the lowest common denominator, which in places like CA gets lower with every illegal that scurries across the border.

In some schools, the teachers are so busy and distracted managing the ESLs that are behind academically, linguistically, socially, and culturally, that actually teaching falls by the wayside. But everyone gets a participation trophy so YAY, we're "inclusive" and have paid the due lip service to "diversity" and "equality".

Nevermind the students can't add or read.

I don't think what you are describing is typical of all California schools. I agree that some schools don't focus enough on basics, my grandson was going to go to a school where it seemed that the kids spent more time on practicing their lines for school plays than they did learning, so my son got him in a very high rated public 'fundamental school' which means that the focus is almost entirely on core subjects. Around 8% of the school is composed of english learners but their test scores are excellent and most of them become proficient in English very quickly. What's interesting is that their English learners are from 6 or 7 different Countries, Mexico, Asia, the Middle East and Russia - how they manage teaching kids from all those different Countries is intriguing but somehow they manage to do it, and do it well