UC Irvine Rescinds 500 offers of Admission (Riverside: rent, find a job, colleges)

[NewbieHere]

Originally Posted by Semiworker

I also agree on the value of UCI's education.

I remembered back in the day when the UCI acceptance letter came for our first kid, some of our relatives were looking down at the school as not prestigious, and full of Asians (aka University of Chinese immigrants).
Both of our kids went to UCI for undergrad, biological sciences. One graduated in 2007 and one in 2013. They both finished high school with solid grades, worked hard at UCI but were only able to graduate with B to B+ in core science GPAs . They also did plenty of fooling around, let me tell you.
As they moved on to professional schools in out of state, they both did surprisingly well comparing to other classmates who came from UCSD or even UCB. Surprisingly, they had no struggle with course materials at all. UCI prepared them well with a good science knowledge foundation & plenty of undergrad opportunities to do research. So in the end, things are turning out well for our kids, even though they went to UCI (ha ha).

BTW, once you go out of state for health professional schools you'll discover there are always a few people in your class who also came from UCI. This fact speaks volume for the school.

It's not just any school, I think it depends on the kids and the major too. My daughter's best friend graduated Summa CumLaude, and Phi Beta a Kappa at UCB, I think minimum was 3.8 GPA at UCB, she always trailed my kid in every subject since kindergarten , including reading, much lower SAT scores too, got into UCB as a Spring admit. Maybe she did hit a major that she really likes.

[CaliRestoration]

Good.

Actions have consequences. Consider it an early life lesson.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by silverkris

There are folks who like to sniff at the CSUs...

Speaking of which, what do you think of the CSUs dropping their requirement for placement exams and eliminating their remedial classes?

Cal State will no longer require placement exams and remedial classes for freshmen - LA Times

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Speaking of which, what do you think of the CSUs dropping their requirement for placement exams and eliminating their remedial classes?

Cal State will no longer require placement exams and remedial classes for freshmen - LA Times

Well - it's an experiment to see if they can improve their 4-year graduation rates while still helping students who need extra help and support, say, in English. It might work for some students, and it might not for others...so we shall see.

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Speaking of which, what do you think of the CSUs dropping their requirement for placement exams and eliminating their remedial classes?

Cal State will no longer require placement exams and remedial classes for freshmen - LA Times

I think, on the surface, this makes sense for a couple of reasons.

First, many of the Cal States are now very competitive for admission -- gone are the days when a student with a spotty "C" and "D" transcript could just waltz into a Cal State.

Second, the Cal States 4-year graduation rate is pretty dismal across the board (some campuses are a little better than others). So, what this does is prevent students from losing time in remedial courses based on the results of a single exam (well, two). That's a win for students because an extra year or two of college translates into extra cost (not to mention more student debt) or worse, students drop out.

Third, the order attempts to redirect the curriculum based on major. In other words, all students in a particular major will enroll in a basic course designed to give everyone the reading and math skills they need for that particular major. Students who are identified as needing extra support/work will then be placed in further classwork to help them get up to speed. So, in a sense, as I understand it, there will still be "remedial" classes but they will be designed based on the requirements of the major and with the goal of keeping the student on track for graduation in a reasonable time.

Sounds like a good plan, but, of course, the execution will be key. It remains to be seen how this is going to translate into the actual curriculum. It could potentially leave some kids who really do need extra help in the form of remedial work in the dust (of course, there's a place for those kids at Community College). But, for others, it may be the path to quicker graduation than they had stuck in "remedial" courses that didn't count towards graduation.

We'll see!

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by RosieSD

I think, on the surface, this makes sense for a couple of reasons.

First, many of the Cal States are now very competitive for admission -- gone are the days when a student with a spotty "C" and "D" transcript could just waltz into a Cal State.

Second, the Cal States 4-year graduation rate is pretty dismal across the board (some campuses are a little better than others). So, what this does is prevent students from losing time in remedial courses based on the results of a single exam (well, two). That's a win for students because an extra year or two of college translates into extra cost (not to mention more student debt) or worse, students drop out.

Third, the order attempts to redirect the curriculum based on major. In other words, all students in a particular major will enroll in a basic course designed to give everyone the reading and math skills they need for that particular major. Students who are identified as needing extra support/work will then be placed in further classwork to help them get up to speed. So, in a sense, as I understand it, there will still be "remedial" classes but they will be designed based on the requirements of the major and with the goal of keeping the student on track for graduation in a reasonable time.

Sounds like a good plan, but, of course, the execution will be key. It remains to be seen how this is going to translate into the actual curriculum. It could potentially leave some kids who really do need extra help in the form of remedial work in the dust (of course, there's a place for those kids at Community College). But, for others, it may be the path to quicker graduation than they had stuck in "remedial" courses that didn't count towards graduation.

We'll see!

That's a good initial assessment because it's anybody's guess how it's going to turn out. I think it can be effective if the students who really need the remedial help has a more targeted and focused support and the resources for those are adequate (and that's a big IF).

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by silverkris

That's a good initial assessment because it's anybody's guess how it's going to turn out. I think it can be effective if the students who really need the remedial help has a more targeted and focused support and the resources for those are adequate (and that's a big IF).

Agreed. I think a plan like this would work better in a smaller school than a larger school like SDSU. But, maybe pushing it down to a department/major level will help. It remains to be seen. But, good idea in concept.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by RosieSD

Second, the Cal States 4-year graduation rate is pretty dismal across the board (some campuses are a little better than others). So, what this does is prevent students from losing time in remedial courses based on the results of a single exam (well, two). That's a win for students because an extra year or two of college translates into extra cost (not to mention more student debt) or worse, students drop out.

What I don't understand is that if most, if not all, of the students who would normally be in remedial courses are no longer able to take them, how is that going to help graduation rates? I would think that it would cause a higher drop out rate or at the least, a greater number of students on academic probation.

Personally, I think that until some form of CAHSEE is returned as a requirement for high school graduation, we will continue to see students who have trouble writing, reading, and performing basic math. Supposedly the exam was put on hold so that it could be aligned with Common Core standards. It appears to have been put on the back burner at this point. So, in the meantime, many students are graduating with a diploma (instead of a certificate of completion) without being able to write an essay, answer comprehension questions correctly, or solve basic algebra problems.

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

What I don't understand is that if most, if not all, of the students who would normally be in remedial courses are no longer able to take them, how is that going to help graduation rates? I would think that it would cause a higher drop out rate or at the least, a greater number of students on academic probation.

Read the actual plan. They're not doing away with remedial classes. They're just doing away with the extra testing.

Instead of using the exam to identify who needs extra preparation, all students will take an introductory course in their major department that will serve to identify who needs extra preparation before tackling higher level courses in that major. The extra preparation will be "remedial" courses in the sense of helping students prepare for upper level work, but unlike the current "remedial" courses, they'll keep students on track for graduation by applying to their graduation requirements. And, all students will start off on a level playing field with the same course work.

At least that's how I interpreted it from how things were explained in the written plan. (You need to read the actual plan to get this; the LA Times article skipped over much of this.)

I'm reading into what the plan says, but my hunch is that the expectation is by pushing things down to the department level, that will also provide more personal attention and tracking of individual students' progress towards graduation, something that has been lacking at many Cal States. In other words, it will be harder to fall through the cracks if you need extra help and support because you won't be shuttled into the broad category of "remedial classes" but kept within your intended department.

Again, overall, I think this is a good concept and it's the way things are done at many other colleges and universities (especially private ones), but as silverkris noted above (and I concur), it remains to be seen how well it will work at individual Cal States.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by RosieSD

Instead of using the exam to identify who needs extra preparation, all students will take an introductory course in their major department that will serve to identify who needs extra preparation before tackling higher level courses in that major.

How many CSU students declare a major as an entering freshman, though? Is that a requirement now?

At least that's how I interpreted it from how things were explained in the written plan. (You need to read the actual plan to get this; the LA Times article skipped over much of this.)

Is it this one? Executive Order 1110 | California State University