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Old 01-31-2018, 01:39 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,564 posts, read 16,058,926 times
Reputation: 19586

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
One thing I think we can do is focus on pharmaceutical prices (and I mean prices, not costs). There is a reason most big pharma is headquartered in Switzerland -- and it is taxes. R&D is frequently performed in the USA, with patents filed, and then before the not-approved-drugs begin their arduous trek through the IND/NDA process, the patents are "sold" from the US entity to the Swiss parent for a nominal amount -- at that time the patents have little economic value because there is no approved drug that they cover. Then, years later, if the drug survives the IND/NDA process, the US entity must pay the Swiss entity a very large transfer payment, so the US entity must then charge very high prices.

I haven't yet read any analysis of the new tax law specific to Big Pharma, and if the new system will change the scenario I describe above. Maybe. I know the new tax law encourages investment in capital (plant & equipment) but I don't know enough about Big Pharma to know if it would impact the R&D process.

There is one other thing we can do.

It is common practice for Big Pharma to engage in country-by-country price discrimination. When this happens, we see a drug in the USA with a very large price tag and the same drug is for sale in other developed countries for much less... and it is available for sale in 3rd world s-holes for pennies.

I don't see any reason why I should pay big bucks for a medicine while that same drug is sold in India or Pakistan or Africa for 99% less. I don't want to subsidize their use of blockbuster drugs. I think we should insist on a price leveling so that the USA does not pay more than the 3rd world s-hole pays.
Good observations, Sporty. And I share your position that the real culprit in all of this is the cost of care itself, as separate from insurance and administration.

A key point that all these discussions miss is that much of what has become “standards of care” is quite historically-recent technology, driven in development and deployment by industry profit motive ... not by real measure of necessity. Our species has managed to explode across the planet to more than 7 billion strong, virtually all without any advantages of the recent generation of extraordinarily expensive high tech tools.

And then there's litigation ... (but that serves good purpose as well as driving costs).

But above all what's missed is: preventive care and just plain ole' ordinary healthy living habits eschewing the (also industry profit driven) cultural conditioning to unhealthy consumption habits.

the lion's share of health issues we pay so dearly for are ... self inflicted.

 
Old 02-01-2018, 09:35 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,573 posts, read 26,433,288 times
Reputation: 24510
And drug prices.

"I don't know that there is any drug price of a branded product that has ever gone down from any company on any drug in the United States," he replied, suggesting such an idea runs counter to every capitalistic principle this country stands for

Trump once again vows to lower drug prices, and once again you shouldn't believe him
 
Old 02-01-2018, 02:03 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,229,736 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
And drug prices.

"I don't know that there is any drug price of a branded product that has ever gone down from any company on any drug in the United States," he replied, suggesting such an idea runs counter to every capitalistic principle this country stands for

Trump once again vows to lower drug prices, and once again you shouldn't believe him
You really need to read real news, not the comics.

Rate increases in the US are due to basically political pay offs, to keep prices high. Trump is about the only person in Gov't who cannot be bought with a campaign contribution.

Greed, greedy lawyers and fearful doctors have led to more expensive equipment and more tests.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 02:29 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,564 posts, read 16,058,926 times
Reputation: 19586
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
You really need to read real news, not the comics.

Rate increases in the US are due to basically political pay offs, to keep prices high. Trump is about the only person in Gov't who cannot be bought with a campaign contribution.

Greed, greedy lawyers and fearful doctors have led to more expensive equipment and more tests.
No. Rate increases are a result of what the market will bear, garden variety greed and avarice controlled only slightly by competition. The medical-industrial complex is entrepreneurially driven to develop ever more technologically complex and expensive systems to sell the medical services communities ... which, in turn, are motivated to sell their services by leveraging peoples' fears of illnesses ... most of which illnesses are nothing more sinister than self-inflicted through poor lifestyle choices and lack of personal disciplines.

Politics feeds off the market and psychological condition of the public ... not the other way around. Politicians are parasites ... but with a purpose.

“Chump can't be bought with campaign contributions?” Who are you kidding? He didn't finance his own campaign ... lmfao. He is of the same class of less than the 1% as are the worst of those you attack for “buying” elections. So what's the difference? He IS completely and entirely out of touch with the common man's reality ... and couldn't give a rip less about anything but his own money and adulation from the masses. One majorly sick puppy that one.

What leads to more expenseive equipment and tests is the public's own fear and laziness and ignorance. Lawyers and doctors and politicians feed off our own panic and insecurity.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,573 posts, read 26,433,288 times
Reputation: 24510
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
You really need to read real news, not the comics.
Don’t knock the comics; they’re fun to read when one has time.

However, David Lazarus, the columnist who wrote that article, is no comic strip author. His work has resulted in a variety of laws protecting consumers. More on him: David Lazarus | KTLA

Quote:
Rate increases in the US are due to basically political pay offs, to keep prices high.
And the article is about drug prices, not insurance rate increases.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,711 posts, read 25,867,327 times
Reputation: 33790
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
You really need to read real news, not the comics.

Rate increases in the US are due to basically political pay offs, to keep prices high. Trump is about the only person in Gov't who cannot be bought with a campaign contribution.

Greed, greedy lawyers and fearful doctors have led to more expensive equipment and more tests.
umm yeah Trump cares about drug prices, that's why he just nominated Alex Azar to DHS Secretary, yup that same Alex Azar who was the head of Eli Lilly when the price of Insulin was raised from $122 a vial to $274
HHS nominee Alex Azar takes heat for raising insulin prices
 
Old 02-01-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,564 posts, read 16,058,926 times
Reputation: 19586
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
umm yeah Trump cares about drug prices, that's why he just nominated Alex Azar to DHS Secretary, yup that same Alex Azar who was the head of Eli Lilly when the price of Insulin was raised from $122 a vial to $274
HHS nominee Alex Azar takes heat for raising insulin prices
No no. Really. The Donald cares. He can't be bought. He's the real deal. A messiah ... you can trust the Donald ...MAGA!
 
Old 02-01-2018, 07:14 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,097 posts, read 16,465,254 times
Reputation: 33106
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
And drug prices.

"I don't know that there is any drug price of a branded product that has ever gone down from any company on any drug in the United States," he replied, suggesting such an idea runs counter to every capitalistic principle this country stands for

Trump once again vows to lower drug prices, and once again you shouldn't believe him
True. Trump won't do anything to help lower drug prices. He doesn't care. Nor do others who pack Big Pharma stock in their portfolio. It's all about dividends. To hell with people who need a particular medication and have seen it rise 8,000%.

If you have Netflix, you must watch Episode 4, Drug Short in the Dirty Money series. It spells out pretty clearly why drug prices rise in today's culture. Greed. It's the ONLY reason.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 08:28 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,229,736 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Don’t knock the comics; they’re fun to read when one has time.

However, David Lazarus, the columnist who wrote that article, is no comic strip author. His work has resulted in a variety of laws protecting consumers. More on him: David Lazarus | KTLA



And the article is about drug prices, not insurance rate increases.
Ditto drug prices. Yes corporate greed is also a basic reason, but the politicians are also bought and paid for and go along with the greed.

The companies claim it is the cost of development and to a degree this is true, but when they will sell the same drug in another 1st world country for a lower price, they are not being truthful about why it is so high here.

It isn't one party or one politician it is all of them.

Comics are becoming the last bastion of truth.
 
Old 02-02-2018, 09:31 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,573 posts, read 26,433,288 times
Reputation: 24510
Interesting. I've never heard of a "pharmacy benefit manager."

"No. 1, look at prices. America doesn't use more healthcare than European countries, but we pay a lot more and that's because of prices more than anything else. Look at hospital prices and prescription drug prices. I would also say, look to eliminate middlemen operating in darkness. I'm thinking in particular of pharmacy benefit managers..."

Healthcare advice for Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett and Jamie Dimon
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