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Old 08-15-2017, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
I know about Houston. I wondered if there was anywhere like that in California. Or even like Tucson which has zoning but it's far less strict than California cities.
Again, many unincorporated areas in California have fairly lax zoning laws.

So, yes, there are areas in California that are "far less strict than California cities."
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Again, many unincorporated areas in California have fairly lax zoning laws.

So, yes, there are areas in California that are "far less strict than California cities."
Where you are sounds great.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
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And they are all around LA County's fringes:

Unincorporated Areas and Communities in Los Angeles County, California
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Again, many unincorporated areas in California have fairly lax zoning laws.

So, yes, there are areas in California that are "far less strict than California cities."
Yes zoning laws are to be adjusted to fit the growth of an area. After a while you can't have 10 cattle if the area is developing into a residential neighborhood. The variety of zoning laws are designed to fit the needs at a specific time. As things change some zoning laws can no longer be changed. When an area gets built out it is not wise to change the R1 to a multi family zoning say for apartments. There is a limit to growth no matter how many people may want to live in an area, or life deteriorates for everyone.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
As things change some zoning laws can no longer be changed. When an area gets built out it is not wise to change the R1 to a multi family zoning say for apartments. .
Why? Just so property values can be artificially stimulated by limiting supply?
This belief is exactly why the sort of strict zoning found in California is cancer. It exacerbates the states' inequality and housing problems while overburdening business with excessive regulations and preventing jobs from being created.

I am not surprised the left loves zoning in California, but it is surprising to me that it is just as popular in right wing areas.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yes zoning laws are to be adjusted to fit the growth of an area. After a while you can't have 10 cattle if the area is developing into a residential neighborhood. The variety of zoning laws are designed to fit the needs at a specific time. As things change some zoning laws can no longer be changed. When an area gets built out it is not wise to change the R1 to a multi family zoning say for apartments. There is a limit to growth no matter how many people may want to live in an area, or life deteriorates for everyone.
Yes, this is true.

One thing that holds back development in my area is the lack of municipal utilities/services.

For example, water. A small portion of the area is connected to a municipal water district; the majority of the area depends on wells. And, due to the typography of the area, that's not likely to change. Since the availability of well water is not uniform, there are certain areas here that will never be built out. But, in the areas that are connected to municipal water, we've definitely seen more growth/building.

Another example is sewage. All of the property in our area is on individual septic systems. Building codes in our county (and just common sense) restrict what you can build on septic lines. That really limits growth here as well. That may change in the future, but it would be a massive, very costly infrastructure under-taking to bring municipal sewer services out this way, and since we don't have a city government to care about it, it probably won't happen in my lifetime.

We also don't have city services like police and fire. We have to rely on county services for those, and that can sometimes be problematic. Call the county when there's a problem with your road or you want a new school or park built, and you'll have an even longer wait to get action than in even the worst run city.

As I said in my first post, there are pluses and minuses to living in an area where zoning enforcement is pretty lax. There are definitely times when I wish I could call in the Zoning Gods to clean up certain things I see neighbors doing on their property. But, then, the flip side is, I don't have to worry too much about anyone complaining to the Zoning Gods about what I'm doing on my property.

For us, it works, but if someone wants a clean, uniform-looking neighborhood, it's going to be frustrating living here.

I also think that the lax zoning out here definitely also keeps property values a little lower. That's good when you're buying, but not so good when it's time to sell.

Life is full of trade offs.

Last edited by RosieSD; 08-15-2017 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:08 PM
 
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P.S. majoun: Based on what I've read in your other posts, I think you would probably love the political leaning of my area.

And, we're just half an hour from beautiful San Diego.
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:28 PM
 
17,436 posts, read 10,510,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Why? Just so property values can be artificially stimulated by limiting supply?
No it is to keep the quality of life at a level that makes sense.

Quote:
This belief is exactly why the sort of strict zoning found in California is cancer. It exacerbates the states' inequality and housing problems while overburdening business with excessive regulations and preventing jobs from being created.
No it is done so to keep a quality of life that works for those who live there and paid for the improvements in the community/County.

Quote:
I am not surprised the left loves zoning in California, but it is surprising to me that it is just as popular in right wing areas.
Politics has nothing to do with it. Quality of life does.

In, as an example, OC, there is minimal land left. Changing the zoning everywhere so Apts/Condo's/Town Homes can be built only causes the quality of life to deteriorate. You want to live somewhere that is nice, earn the money. You want to destroy the quality of life in an area, keep pushing more and more multi unit housing that will lead to a drain on community services, crowding, increased traffic and a general deterioration in what was a good life for the those who lived there.

No one has a right to live anywhere except within the boundaries of the US. Beyond that, afford it or you don't get to live there. The idea that because some people want to live in an area justifies making it worse for everyone else, does not fly.

Now I will agree the State is not real business friendly, but hey that is life. I own 3 business in CA and deal with the idiocy of the State Government. Those who can't, can go somewhere else; just like those who can't afford to live in a desirable area.
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Old 08-15-2017, 06:29 PM
 
17,436 posts, read 10,510,439 times
Reputation: 8329
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Yes, this is true.

One thing that holds back development in my area is the lack of municipal utilities/services.

For example, water. A small portion of the area is connected to a municipal water district; the majority of the area depends on wells. And, due to the typography of the area, that's not likely to change. Since the availability of well water is not uniform, there are certain areas here that will never be built out. But, in the areas that are connected to municipal water, we've definitely seen more growth/building.

Another example is sewage. All of the property in our area is on individual septic systems. Building codes in our county (and just common sense) restrict what you can build on septic lines. That really limits growth here as well. That may change in the future, but it would be a massive, very costly infrastructure under-taking to bring municipal sewer services out this way, and since we don't have a city government to care about it, it probably won't happen in my lifetime.

We also don't have city services like police and fire. We have to rely on county services for those, and that can sometimes be problematic. Call the county when there's a problem with your road or you want a new school or park built, and you'll have an even longer wait to get action than in even the worst run city.

As I said in my first post, there are pluses and minuses to living in an area where zoning enforcement is pretty lax. There are definitely times when I wish I could call in the Zoning Gods to clean up certain things I see neighbors doing on their property. But, then, the flip side is, I don't have to worry too much about anyone complaining to the Zoning Gods about what I'm doing on my property.

For us, it works, but if someone wants a clean, uniform-looking neighborhood, it's going to be frustrating living here.

I also think that the lax zoning out here definitely also keeps property values a little lower. That's good when you're buying, but not so good when it's time to sell.

Life is full of trade offs.
Rosie, try something novel ..................................... quit making sense.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,447 posts, read 23,879,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
No it is to keep the quality of life at a level that makes sense.



No it is done so to keep a quality of life that works for those who live there and paid for the improvements in the community/County.


Politics has nothing to do with it. Quality of life does.

In, as an example, OC, there is minimal land left. Changing the zoning everywhere so Apts/Condo's/Town Homes can be built only causes the quality of life to deteriorate.
Not necessarily. Way too many variables at work. It is certainly possible for the quality of life to deteriorate, but it is also possible that it would improve or stay the same.

A natural increase in density is part of the life cycle of any area. Zoning (beyond obvious things like those involving pollution or waste) is an imposition upon property rights.

Quote:
You want to live somewhere that is nice, earn the money. You want to destroy the quality of life in an area, keep pushing more and more multi unit housing that will lead to a drain on community services, crowding, increased traffic and a general deterioration in what was a good life for the those who lived there.
.
Not necessarily. There are some areas that would greatly improve with more multi-unit housing and commercial uses in the neighborhoods. At the very least there would be less isolation, less drunk driving, and more pedestrian activity - all of which contribute to quality of life.

I mentioned Tucson as an example of a city which has zoning but in which the zoning is minimal and generally only designed to prohibit the most egregious abuses. The sole reason why OC's quality of life is higher than Tucson's is the weather in both places.
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