CA Supreme Court Ruling: all your monies belong to us, taxes (Oakland: real estate, rent)

[Ultrarunner]

Funny that it took from 1978 to 2017 for the court to make this distinction...

I believe the voters were quite clear with Prop 13...

I guess I should not be surprised because Washington State had voter approved I-747 overturned by the court...

PS... the voters in my city are very generous and the proof is taxes are 50% higher in the city than outside the city...

[TheFlats]

Do you have a point Ultrarunner...

I don't seem to see one...

Prop 13 good, taxes baaad....

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Do you have a point Ultrarunner...

I don't seem to see one...

Prop 13 good, taxes baaad....

Taxation with representation right? What do we have to show for our taxes now? Why do we need more taxes?

[Biz901]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

We are a representative democracy (as opposed to a direct democracy a la the California propositions and initiatives affected by this ruling). Basic civics dude. You understand, which is why you caveat-ed with "pure" democracy.

You're so lost I'm not going to even attempt to correct your lack of education.

P.S. If a majority of Klownifornians vote to allow the murder of certain types of people every Monday, would that be okey dokey for you too

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Do you have a point Ultrarunner...

I don't seem to see one...

Prop 13 good, taxes baaad....

Sometimes I do have trouble making a point...

For the record I have voted for property taxes because I was convinced it was the right thing to do...

Several times it turned out to be lies... as in voting for the tax will produce X, Y and Z... only to find the money raised was diverted...

Anyway... Prop 13 requires 2/3 voter approval for most new property taxes... 55% to build or repair schools.

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 at the time but I find it to be the one saving Grace California has when it comes to taxes and that is offering some predictability and voter approval...

We tried the old way for over a century and it demonstrated there was hardly a tax politicians didn't like.

Prop 13 actually forces government to make the case to the voters... and as I have said it has been made many times since Prop 13 passage and anyone that doubts this need only look at all the voter approved taxes in Oakland CA...

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by max210

California Supreme Court: Local tax hikes proposed via initiative are different from those by elected officials

California Supreme Court: Local tax hikes proposed via initiative are different from those by elected officials - LA Times

Instead of balancing budgets, .gov will just tax you for more money by bypassing prop 13. Expect special "fees" to push the environmental agenda in CA.

huh? I don't think this gives the Governor some special power to pass new taxes does it? This is what it says and I'm not sure what all the hand wringing in this thread is about:

"Ever since Proposition 218 passed in 1996, it was interpreted that the state constitution required at least two-thirds of voters to approve local ballot measures that raise taxes for a specific projects, a high threshold intended to curtail tax increases. But Monday’s 5-2 court ruling says the proposition doesn’t apply to such citizens’ initiatives, but instead only government efforts to raise taxes. The ruling appears to lower the threshold needed to pass citizens’ initiatives to a simple majority, though some dispute it will have that effect. But some called it a game-changer."
California Supreme Court suggests lower bar for passing tax increases through ballot initiatives - The San Diego Union-Tribune

Sounds like what some of you are saying is that you don't trust voters

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Sometimes I do have trouble making a point...

For the record I have voted for property taxes because I was convinced it was the right thing to do...

Several times it turned out to be lies... as in voting for the tax will produce X, Y and Z... only to find the money raised was diverted...

Anyway... Prop 13 requires 2/3 voter approval for most new property taxes... 55% to build or repair schools.

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 at the time but I find it to be the one saving Grace California has when it comes to taxes and that is offering some predictability and voter approval...

We tried the old way for over a century and it demonstrated there was hardly a tax politicians didn't like.

Prop 13 actually forces government to make the case to the voters... and as I have said it has been made many times since Prop 13 passage and anyone that doubts this need only look at all the voter approved taxes in Oakland CA...

The problem with prop 13 was and continues to be that residential property and commercial property are taxed at the same rate. Nevada taxes commercial property at about 3X the rate of residential. You can't pay for public services when you give commercial property owners this kind of tax break and then exacerbate it by allowing them to use all sorts of machinations to avoid reappraisal upon transfer of ownership. Look what happened to California schools between 1978 and today, we went from top 10 in the nation to nearly last.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

The fix is clearly to lower taxes and regulations as demonstrated by the supply side paradise of Kansas where the job creators are working overtime creating jobs in the jobs factories because of all that extra money in their pocket.

yes indeed, we finally got to see the folly of Laffer's economic theory didn't we?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Edit: Oh man! I had a great idea. Let's have a national vote on Medicare and everyone over 65 is excluded from voting. Would save us a ton of money.

Or vote to increase school spending but no one with kids or grandkids would be allowed to vote, simply brilliant!

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

The problem with prop 13 was and continues to be that residential property and commercial property are taxed at the same rate. Nevada taxes commercial property at about 3X the rate of residential. You can't pay for public services when you give commercial property owners this kind of tax break and then exacerbate it by allowing them to use all sorts of machinations to avoid reappraisal upon transfer of ownership. Look what happened to California schools between 1978 and today, we went from top 10 in the nation to nearly last.

That "Fault" lies not with Prop 13... the State Constitution prohibits a split tax roll...

Now, had the legislature not ceded the problem to the people and simply indexed the Home Owner Exemption to inflation I doubt Prop 13 would have ever passed.

There was a time when a modest home in much of California cost 12k so a $7500 exemption really meant something and meant a lot for those with modest homes...

To this day I will never understand how Sacramento underestimated the voters response to Prop 13...