Fresno or Modesto??? (San Francisco, Sacramento, Bakersfield: best neighborhood, new house, neighborhood)

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by huntman58

Well I do not know if you have moved yet or not but if not let me threw a few things at you being I have lived in Calif. most of my life say from around 1965 to 1992 then back again in 2002 tell now. This also covered time in the east bay area, Modesto and Fresno. 1st off Fresno would be my last chouse and it is I live well about 24 miles south west of there. reasons being crime, gangs, (very very active) schools, super bad air ( if any one has or is sensitive to bad air not a good place at all) this includes many days a year were the air is so bad they label it unhealthy for every one! This can be any time of the year also. It also is a hot bed for kids with asthma so some thing to think about. I have lived in the area now for over 4 years and can not wait to get out! Step son and my self fight lug troubles all the time because of the air. On bad days it burns your lungs you can feel it and taste it. This go's for about every one not just people who are sensitive to bad air it just is flat out unhealthy! Now summer it gets hot and I do mean hot try 110 or more on the high side with lots of days over 100 like 30 or more with no days going below that. The parks are okay around the cities but the best places are up higher as you stated. To get away from the heat you need to get above 5,000 feet or more. Winter can be kind of cold and damp because of the fog and with the fog it will be so bad if you can see two dashed lines on the road your doing good. This is why you hear of the big for wrecks out here because with fog that has less then 100 feet visibility you still have people that think they can drive over 70 mph. just a few weeks a go step daughter was hit in the fog because some one speeding did not see the red-light so they ran it and broadsided her totaling her car that goodness no one was hurt real bad but the other driver flat said they could not see the light tell they were on top of it. They got tickets for speeding and running the light. They were doing a bit over 50 and were ticketed for speeding to fast for safety because they should have been doing less then 35. The posted is 65 to give an idea how bad it can get. Traffic is bad in the summer at the national parks and they do at times close them down because of to many cars. Entrance fee is also at $20.00 a car now. There are also other cities that are just as easy to get to the parks from that are farther north. But most in and around the valley any were do have there problems. Clovis is a better one for the Fresno area and also the more expense one to live in.
Farther north Oakdale is nice and also easy to get to the parks, also easier for snow skiing. Summer better and more camping and fishing. Farther north you need to go above Sacramento as between sac and Modesto Lodi, Oakdale as I said and maybe Valley springs. If a person can afford it and can find work Sonora, San Andréa’s, Angels camp in the foot hills are also good and close to some good lakes also above the fog and right at the snow line get some but not a lot so easy to deal with . Oakhurst nice also but gets almost as hot as Fresno may be 10 degrees cooler. If you want to know more about these areas or some other one send me an e mail and I will let you know what I can but can not tell you much south of Fresno at all as I have only lived and traveled most all of the northern part of the state . Very few places in the northern end I have not spent time in or know people that I can ask. but Fresno In my book is like Oakland, LA, Richmond, and most of the other bad areas all places I would not live given a chouse and as soon as the wife is done with her degree and we have the cash saved we are gone from Fresno and most likely California to be honest as to much traffic and to expensive to live here. Also right now unemployment in the Fresno area is around 15.5% not good so check things out careful as California has many places on paper that look good but in person are not. It no longer is the state it once was and it is not a place I would say is great to raise a family or things like that. But if you want multi cultural then bingo jackpot! as that is were California is a winner fact is depending were you live and your authenticity you can be one of the majority or a minority all depends of the city and neighborhood any more but as a state over all Hispanic is one of the larger populations and as whole whites are now a minority. So diversity is alive and well and make for a rich experience with all the chouses at your finger tips.

I'm a transplant from Tulsa Oklahoma that have been living in California for 30 years...I live in Vallejo which is in the San Francisco Bay Area. All of the SMOG fron the Bay Area is sucked into Fresno CA and the FOG is deadly both in Fresno Bakerfield Modesto Stockton Sacramento Merced and anywhere else in the VALLEY that you can name. Modesto is going to be part of the San Francisco Bay Area along with Stockton and Sacramento CA by the year 2020..so are the people on this Board Sure That They Want To Choose Between Modesto and Fresno. My choice would be To Get Up ABOVE THE SMOG LEVEL Somewhere 30 To 40 Miles
In The Foot Hills Near Fresno CA....

[huntman58]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

Just to correct you, unemployment is higher that the state average but not as high as you say.

Unemployment in all of Fresno County (including the rural towns with ag jobs) is at 11.4% in Oct, it was 9.7% in Madera County, 11.1% in San Joaquin County (Stockton) and and a higher 11.8% in Stanislaus County (Modesto).

But looking at individual cities in October:
City of Fresno 10.7%
City of Clovis 6.0%
City of Madera 13.9%
City of Modesto 10.1%
City of Stockton 13.5%
City of Sacramento 9.5%

The most recent economic forecasts out of UCLA and UOP are that Fresno/Clovis is near its economic low, and will come nowhere near its very high unemployment of the 1990s. But the other areas in the state will be worse off (higher unemployment) than they were in the 1990s.

Crime in Fresno has fallen and is now comparable to Omaha or Portland. It is actually lower crime in Fresno than in Sacramento, San Francisco or others.

Check out the crime rankings of cities over 75,000 people here, listed lowest to highest crime. Fresno is #242 out of 385 cities, Omaha is #239 Portland is at #245.
http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/CityCrime2008_Rank.pdf

Personally, I consider the $20 per car to get into the parks cheap compared to what people pay for a day at Disneyland.

In fact a better deal to visit the national parks is a year pass with unlimited visits at all national parks at $80 for the entire car, $10 a year for seniors and free to those with permanent disabilities.
America the Beautiful - National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Pass

Series Title: Unemployment Rate: Fresno, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area, California; Percent; NSA = 2008 08 9·7, 2008 09 9·6, 2008 10 11.4

http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/frsn$pds.pdf
FRESNO METROPOLITAN STATISTICAL AREA (MSA)
(FRESNO COUNTY)
Trade, transportation, and utilities leads month-over growth
The unemployment rate in the Fresno County was 12.1 percent in November 2008, up from a
revised 11.3 percent in October 2008, and above the year-ago estimate of 8.9 percent. This
compares with an unadjusted unemployment rate of 8.3 percent for California and 6.5 percent
for the nation during the same period.


As I said you can not just talk about the city you have to include the area that is also the influence of the city. Fresno is only the nucleus of this area and the county center.
Also for crime it is a well known fact that as employment raises so dose crime. The statistics will not show this yet but tracking local news paper stories or any one living in the area already knows it is rising. We also know a city and police department will do all they can to slow or stop it plus keep it out of the publics eyes and news. No city wants the black eye that comes with it.
It is also a known fact that the Fresno school system is one of the worst in the state. This is for k-12. It is improving but they could only get better not any worse! The state was going to fully take it over as it was that bad. They had some of the highest paid board members and yet some of the lowest performing tests scores. They also were being known as a drop out mill system. Yes I do not have much good to say about Fresno in fact I call it the arm pit of California. There are many many places to live that are so much better and just as close to great recreation places and close to the national parks. For me extra hours drive or a bit more for the few trips to a park are worth the feeling of a better quality of life day in and day out. I also found that up only a hundred or so miles north of Fresno the forest were easier and a lot more excisable to get to for camping fishing and just enjoying. More snow skiing chouses and also closer to things like Tahoe, Shasta parks, the north redwoods. Yet still so close to Yosemite and the redwoods and the other parks there. But much closer to better lakes for boating fishing and just enjoying a day out. Living in Fresno I find it more limited in places to go year round. 150 miles north you have the gold rush country, the high country, the next day the ocean, all easy day drives, Modesto about 1.5 hours from Yosemite and 2 hours from bass lake area for the southern parks. Yet about 3 to 3.5 to the state line and the gem called Tahoe and all the lakes in that area both low level and high ones. also closer to over 1,000 miles of the delta river ways for boating or fishing also yes an easy drive to SF for big city life or a night on the town. I do not care a lot for Calif living but there is a lot of good to be had here and in fact my only complaints of the state are the crowed cities and the high cost to live here and that is it .
but there are few places I would not by chouse live in here in Calif and Fresno is close to the top of the list just behind Richmond, Oakland ( most of the Bay area because of crowding any more ) or the LA are because of crowding . Top places would be small foot hill towns, mid size central valley towns close to the northern part of the state or in the central or north gold rush area foot hills. but that is my opinion made on almost 40 years of living or visiting Calif. and comparing it to living and visiting other areas in depth also. and yes I am not a big city person so that dose slant my views and I do not like hot weather that is over 100 for a month or more day in and day out as we get in the summer so having close places to escape it are a must for me both high mountains and the ocean .

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by huntman58

The unemployment rate in the Fresno County was 12.1 percent in November 2008, up from a revised 11.3 percent in October 2008, and above the year-ago estimate of 8.9 percent. This compares with an unadjusted unemployment rate of 8.3 percent for California and 6.5 percent for the nation during the same period.

That is still down from the extreme high figures seen in the 1990s. Fresno County used to see 15 to 16% in November.

November is one of the highest unemployment months in the county since there is less agricultural work in the winter and the farm jobs have dropped due to drought this year.

The city of Fresno is only 1/2 of the county population so farm work skews the county wide numbers

Lets look at individual cities in Fresno County for November 2008 using your same source.
Clovis 6.4%
Fresno 11.3%
Sanger 18.7%
Reedley 23.6%
Mendota 32.4%
Those numbers reflect the drop in farm jobs in winter and due to the drought.

Comparing some other California larger cities in November 2008 to Fresno's 11.3%, it is not far out of line:
Sacramento City 9.5%
Modesto 10.6%
Los Angeles 9.6%
Long Beach 9.6%
Oxnard 10.1%
Riverside 9.9%
Santa Maria 9.9%

And foothill and mountain areas you say are better had this unemployment in November 2008
Tahoe Vista 12.1%
South Lake Tahoe 10.5%
Lincoln 13.8%
Placerville 11.6%
San Andreas 16.4%
Redding 9.6%
Shasta Lake 14.4%

Originally Posted by huntman58

As I said you can not just talk about the city you have to include the area that is also the influence of the city.

So that means that talking about San Francisco has to include Oakland and its crime, right? San Francisco has lots of crime and add in Oakland so it must be horrible in the Bay Area.

But lets remember that Fresno County is over 6,000 sq miles in size, larger than the states of Rhode Island, Delaware, or Connecticut. It is 105 miles from Coalinga in western Fresno County to Kings Canyon in eastern Fresno County. That is huge geography and all very different and diverse.

Originally Posted by huntman58

Also for crime it is a well known fact that as employment raises so dose crime. The statistics will not show this yet but tracking local news paper stories or any one living in the area already knows it is rising. We also know a city and police department will do all they can to slow or stop it plus keep it out of the publics eyes and news. No city wants the black eye that comes with it.

I agree a recession means higher crime rates everywhere.

But the crime is still way down in the city of Fresno and will be unlikely to approach the levels seen in the 1990s.

For example, Fresno had 72 homicides in 1995 but is below 40 this year even though the population has increased by several hundred thousand people in the last 15 years.

Originally Posted by huntman58

It is also a known fact that the Fresno school system is one of the worst in the state. This is for k-12. It is improving but they could only get better not any worse! The state was going to fully take it over as it was that bad. They had some of the highest paid board members and yet some of the lowest performing tests scores. They also were being known as a drop out mill system.

Fresno is handled by multiple school districts not just Fresno Unified.

Clovis Unified is one of the best in the state and it covers north Fresno above Herndon.

Here is the data on California drop out rates in 2005-06.

If you select a sort by drop out rate (percentage) Fresno Unified is only the 89th worse district in the state with a 4.6% rate. Lost of worse off districts in California.
CDRP - District Dropout Table

But you are also saying what I am saying, that Fresno is IMPROVING. It hit hard bottom in the 1990s and is now going upward.

There are really few places in California that I feel are improving. Many are actually getting much worse.

And lets be honest, Fresno and the Central Valley is not really "California". They are a piece of the midwest dropped onto the west coast.

[ceyda2000]

If you have chosen Fresno, you will be ok. I would probably say Modesto may have been better but I live in Fresno and do some work in Modesto and both have fog/traffic. Traffic isn't as bad in Fresno. Try to move north of Shaw Ave and avoid a little area called Pinedale. Housing prices are dropping rapidly here so I would recommend renting and waiting a bit until the bottom truly hits to buy. I live in Clovis which is nice but probably over-priced. If you are going to be doing any driving north on the 99 freeway for work, I would recommend living in NW Fresno. It is nice and cheaper. There are good cheap grocery stores here too!! Winco. Fresno is about 3 hours from everything so if you can save a bit in your budget to get out of town on a regular basis it will make living here nice.

[huntman58]

Originally Posted by ceyda2000

If you have chosen Fresno, you will be ok. I would probably say Modesto may have been better but I live in Fresno and do some work in Modesto and both have fog/traffic. Traffic isn't as bad in Fresno. Try to move north of Shaw Ave and avoid a little area called Pinedale. Housing prices are dropping rapidly here so I would recommend renting and waiting a bit until the bottom truly hits to buy. I live in Clovis which is nice but probably over-priced. If you are going to be doing any driving north on the 99 freeway for work, I would recommend living in NW Fresno. It is nice and cheaper. There are good cheap grocery stores here too!! Winco. Fresno is about 3 hours from everything so if you can save a bit in your budget to get out of town on a regular basis it will make living here nice.

I have to agree with what you said here as if forced to live in Fresno then the north end is best .

[213L.A.CALI]

i would say fresno because it has more asian gangs

[rc09]

Fresno. Modesto is close to....nothing. At least Fresno is centrally located and A LOT bigger than Modesto. About 500,000+ is the population. Plus, there are A LOT of hospitals all over Fresno. If you are looking to settle in a smaller/peaceful suburb, try Clovis or Reedley. Clovis is closer to Fresno, Reedley is a lot more peaceful than Clovis though. Clovis has a population of about 100,000. Reedley is about 25,000+.

[mostie]

If you choose Fresno, you should check out Kingsburg to live in- most people in Fresno Co. live outside of Fresno (Selma, Kingsburg, Fowler, Hanford, etc. etc.) and commute to work- it's 20 miles each way, and Kingsburg is a nice little town.

[rkb0305]

Originally Posted by mostie

If you choose Fresno, you should check out Kingsburg to live in- most people in Fresno Co. live outside of Fresno (Selma, Kingsburg, Fowler, Hanford, etc. etc.) and commute to work- it's 20 miles each way, and Kingsburg is a nice little town.

I don't know about that... I would say about half of Fresno County's population is in the City of Fresno. Some people commute from the towns you named, and a few live in the smaller farming communities on the west side and the mountain communities on the east side.

City-Data says Fresno County population is 899,000 and Fresno City is 470,000.

[rkb0305]

Originally Posted by rc09

Fresno. Modesto is close to....nothing. At least Fresno is centrally located and A LOT bigger than Modesto. About 500,000+ is the population. Plus, there are A LOT of hospitals all over Fresno. If you are looking to settle in a smaller/peaceful suburb, try Clovis or Reedley. Clovis is closer to Fresno, Reedley is a lot more peaceful than Clovis though. Clovis has a population of about 100,000. Reedley is about 25,000+.

Modesto is closer to the Bay Area, Tahoe, Sacramento. It depends on what you want to be close to.