U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-09-2017, 11:52 PM
 
63 posts, read 29,019 times
Reputation: 136

Advertisements

So sad to read of the destruction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-10-2017, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
5,213 posts, read 2,094,988 times
Reputation: 6869
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
AP is reporting that a Cal Fire Official says at least 1500 structures, including homes and businesses, have burned so far in these fires. Zero percent containment in all of the fires.

In Santa Rosa, multiple stores have also burned, including a Kmart. They have just issued new evacuations in the city of Santa Rosa. Basically, all of Santa Rosa east of the 101 is evacuated, and some parts west of it too. Hwy 101 is closed in Santa Rosa.

There are apparently at least six major fires burning in Napa, Sonoma, Lake, and Mendocino Counties.

Apparently in Napa County they had to evacuate some people last night by helicopter. Scary stuff.


Decent live reporting available here: Evacuations, road and school closures because of multiple North Bay wildfires - Story | KTVU
I hate to say it, but this was totally predictable. Typical shabby Californian suburban 100% wood frame construction, built five feet apart. Not even a single layer of bricks on the exteriors or ceramic tile roofs.

I hope this is a wake up call and when they rebuild they require fireproofing, but based on the last 110 years of history, I'm not optimistic. So it will probably happen many more times in the future. Spending billions of dollars on earthquake retrofitting and zero on fireproofing is extremely foolish, IMHO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,487 posts, read 5,124,067 times
Reputation: 2172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I hate to say it, but this was totally predictable. Typical shabby Californian suburban 100% wood frame construction, built five feet apart. Not even a single layer of bricks on the exteriors or ceramic tile roofs.

I hope this is a wake up call and when they rebuild they require fireproofing, but based on the last 110 years of history, I'm not optimistic. So it will probably happen many more times in the future. Spending billions of dollars on earthquake retrofitting and zero on fireproofing is extremely foolish, IMHO.
No, they weren't five feet apart. Quite a few neighborhoods that burned had houses on lots that were larger than a half acre. Several burned where there wasn't anything around them, including an apartment complex that is relatively isolated on a hill without much vegetation around.

Wood frame construction is the standard throughout the country. There is no reason an exception should be made in California as fireproofing has a lot more to do with the materials on building exteriors. Fire resistant exteriors are a requirement in California for buildings located at the urban-wildland interface. Many of these structures were located in established suburban neighborhoods with little native vegetation. These neighborhoods aren't typically considered fire-prone. However, when you have 50 mph winds with dew points around 15 degrees, there isn't much that can be done to stop a fire like this short of building everything out of masonry, which isn't going to happen because it is just too expensive, and masonry construction has its own unique set of building codes to meet so the buildings don't fall down and crush the occupants in an earthquake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 03:42 AM
 
5,163 posts, read 2,781,825 times
Reputation: 8275
Quote:
Originally Posted by movinon View Post
[/b]Yes, evacuating is not an option! If they say go, go and go now. My uncle refused to leave during the Cedar Fire in San Diego in 2003. Eventually CalFire had to escort him out when they had to leave (they were staged in his driveway) as the fire was so close. His home burned to the ground and he lost one of his dogs as they could only find two of the three. He was going to go down with the ship if CalFire hadn't stepped in. It's not worth it - in the end it's all "stuff", sentimental or not.



OMG, I remember that fire, & the fires all over San Diego County in 2007. We knew 2 people whose houses burned to the ground. We could see the flames from our house.

Yes, just get out, take family & pets & GO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 04:22 AM
 
3,151 posts, read 3,089,309 times
Reputation: 3598
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelotus View Post
Gosh Im so sorry for all the folks who have been affected....so sad.
I was online hoping to book a flight for Santa Rosa for next week... when I suddenly saw this news on the weather channel. I am from southeast US and have no idea how long
these fires can last. Can anyone who knows the area give me a clue when it may be safe to book a trip there?
There's no predicting when things will be normal. Hubs and I were evacuated during the San Bernardino firestorm of 2003 for 9 days. Also the air will be very polluted. Not just from smoke but from all the crap that got burned up including vehicles, household appliances, oil, cleaning fluids, computers, etc. Especially not good if someone is asthmatic.

Also, lots of displaced people will be staying in the local lodging. I'd suggest you keep an eye on the news, but certainly be open to a different location for your vacation. Good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 07:17 AM
 
17,574 posts, read 10,635,974 times
Reputation: 8487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
I hate to say it, but this was totally predictable. Typical shabby Californian suburban 100% wood frame construction, built five feet apart. Not even a single layer of bricks on the exteriors or ceramic tile roofs.

I hope this is a wake up call and when they rebuild they require fireproofing, but based on the last 110 years of history, I'm not optimistic. So it will probably happen many more times in the future. Spending billions of dollars on earthquake retrofitting and zero on fireproofing is extremely foolish, IMHO.
Another issue a friend in CA just told me about is related to the pay and benefit issues in CA. Many cities to lower costs are reducing the number of fire fighters and how many go on a call (In his city from 5 to 3 per truck). In many cases what they do is let your home burn if it isn't something they can stop easily and simply try to keep the neighbors from burning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 07:33 AM
 
Location: In the reddest part of the bluest state
3,251 posts, read 1,240,136 times
Reputation: 2756
This is so awful, thoughts and prayers go to those impacted. Being from the Midwest, I've seen this kind of devastation from tornados, but a tornado lands and is gone so recovery can start. This just seems unending!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 07:54 AM
509
 
2,994 posts, read 4,086,725 times
Reputation: 3535
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
No, they weren't five feet apart. Quite a few neighborhoods that burned had houses on lots that were larger than a half acre. Several burned where there wasn't anything around them, including an apartment complex that is relatively isolated on a hill without much vegetation around.

Wood frame construction is the standard throughout the country. There is no reason an exception should be made in California as fireproofing has a lot more to do with the materials on building exteriors. Fire resistant exteriors are a requirement in California for buildings located at the urban-wildland interface. Many of these structures were located in established suburban neighborhoods with little native vegetation. These neighborhoods aren't typically considered fire-prone. However, when you have 50 mph winds with dew points around 15 degrees, there isn't much that can be done to stop a fire like this short of building everything out of masonry, which isn't going to happen because it is just too expensive, and masonry construction has its own unique set of building codes to meet so the buildings don't fall down and crush the occupants in an earthquake.
I think both you and CloudyDays are right.

I was in Montana talking to a BLM fire person when Colorado Springs and their subdivisions went up. His point was that the first row of homes was a wildland fire. After that first row it was a urban firestorm.

As Oakland Hills, Colorado Springs, Wenatchee, Napa and a host of others have shown 50 MPH winds and humidities at 10% are not that rare in the west.

The taxpayers through Forest Service research have spent a lot of money on wildland fire research and how to deal with them. It might be time to throw some research funds into looking at these suburban fire storms and taking a look at what might be done to lessen their impact.

The other thing that needs to be discussed is fuel loading through vegetation growth. In California, the fuel loading is incredible. There needs to be reduction of those along the suburban wildland interface.

My house isn't the best for fire resistance, but it will be the sage on my neighbors property to will burn down my house, not my trees. The adjacent property is vacant so they has no incentive to remove the sage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Towson, MD
189 posts, read 106,843 times
Reputation: 816
My former neighborhood in Santa Rosa is burned to the ground. Haven't lived there in 25 years, but I had many wonderful years in Santa Rosa, and it's very sad to see the pictures. Looks like a good third of the city is destroyed.

Something will need to be done about lot density, building materials, and vegetation to reduce this threat in the future. God knows how damaged the Napa wine industry will be after this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-10-2017, 09:01 AM
 
5,758 posts, read 2,323,392 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I think both you and CloudyDays are right.

I was in Montana talking to a BLM fire person when Colorado Springs and their subdivisions went up. His point was that the first row of homes was a wildland fire. After that first row it was a urban firestorm.

As Oakland Hills, Colorado Springs, Wenatchee, Napa and a host of others have shown 50 MPH winds and humidities at 10% are not that rare in the west.

The taxpayers through Forest Service research have spent a lot of money on wildland fire research and how to deal with them. It might be time to throw some research funds into looking at these suburban fire storms and taking a look at what might be done to lessen their impact.

The other thing that needs to be discussed is fuel loading through vegetation growth. In California, the fuel loading is incredible. There needs to be reduction of those along the suburban wildland interface.

My house isn't the best for fire resistance, but it will be the sage on my neighbors property to will burn down my house, not my trees. The adjacent property is vacant so they has no incentive to remove the sage.
There's a lot to be said for this. Fire is nature's broom, it cleans the forest floor and if it doesn't burn every few years combustible material builds up and everything gets worse. My father was a bulldozer driver during the Yellowstone fires in the late 80s. Those fires were the result of management gone awry. In some places the heat actually killed the soil. Maybe they need to do something different in Cali?

Best of luck to those affected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:47 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top