California determined to save Obamacare program. Proposals may include a state mandate in California requiring... (zip code, pool)

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

The 10 K figure is an average. Obviously, the larger the number of people in the pool, the more the cost of medical care goes down. Simple law of economics.

Nope. When everyone is forced to be in the pool, the cost skyrockets because the insurance companies don't have any incentive to keep costs low enough that people would willingly pay for. THAT'S the simple law of economics. (And this is EXACTLY what happened the year after the mandate went into effect.)

[CA4Now]

Effective Jan 1, 2019, all hospitals in the U.S. must publish online price lists for all the medical services they provide.

https://www.newsweek.com/end-hidden-...ts-all-1272328

[Radical347]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Effective Jan 1, 2019, all hospitals in the U.S. must publish online price lists for all the medical services they provide.

https://www.newsweek.com/end-hidden-...ts-all-1272328

Now this is something that I support 100%.

[case44]

Originally Posted by k81689

California determined to save Obamacare program. Some residents and employers just want a better deal on insurance.

You should not have to be forced by the government (state or federal) to buy something you don't need. That's why the mandate had to be dropped; it was just so stupid to begin with.

If you Californians desire a better deal for health insurance, then you should have choices and decide for yourselves. It's called the free market. You have options. ObamaCare, clearly, is not the answer, as many have discovered.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Radical347

Nope. When everyone is forced to be in the pool, the cost skyrockets because the insurance companies don't have any incentive to keep costs low enough that people would willingly pay for. THAT'S the simple law of economics. (And this is EXACTLY what happened the year after the mandate went into effect.)

This is sort of a red-herring / strawman ... because the solution lies in removing for-profit insurance companies ... which, if done, should result in dramatic savings overall for healthcare.

Still waiting for previous posters to dispute that national healthcare for all is affordable in every advanced nation except the U.S.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by case44

If you Californians desire a better deal for health insurance, then you should have choices and decide for yourselves. It's called the free market.

Same old discussion. Scroll back. There is no free market with health care. Health care isn't a commodity like a television or a car.

GOP Doublespeak on ‘Free Market’ Health Care: https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/...e-free-market/

There's never a free market with health care: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisla.../#19d565201147

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

This ridiculous argument is tossed around constantly by people unwilling or incapable of analysis.

Yet another Personal Attack.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

We consume massive amounts of healthcare at world-high costs BECAUSE of our ridiculous capitalist system that supports this sort of wastefulness.

Incorrect. Capitalism seeks to drive inefficiencies out of the system. In our case, the problem is massive government intervention in the market, preventing inefficiences from being driven out - and introducing ever more dead-weight loss regulations.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Eliminate the system : bring the rates of expense into line with the rest of the world’s experience.

That's a mighty big magic wand you hope to wave. Somehow, I don't think you learned how to wave it at Hogwart's.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

What every other advanced nation in the world does for health are is not a “fairytale.”

What every other advanced nation does is irrelevant. We're discussing California.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

As CA4now points out: the government mandates all sorts of things from its citizens ...

Nowhere in the California State Constitution, adopted May 7, 1879 and amended many, many times, do The People grant The State the power to compel The People to purchase any good or service from their own wallet.


Nowhere in the US Constitution, effective March 1789, and amended 27 times, do The States grant to the US Government the power to compel Citizens to purchase any good or service.


IF SUCH POWER EXISTED (which it doesn't), then homelessness would be solved simply by forcing the homeless to purchase housing. Thankfully, no government has the power to compel any individual to purchase any thing whatsoever.


Taxation to fund government purchased goods and services is entirely different.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

The 10 K figure is an average.

Yes, 10K is an average. That's why I said "on average across the USA, we consume $10,000 per person per year."

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Obviously, the larger the number of people in the pool, the more the cost of medical care goes down. Simple law of economics.

That is incorrect. The larger the number of people in the pool, the tighter the variance of the estimator (measured average) is to the actual average. That is, the "bell curve" becomes very skinny and tall.


So, obviously, the more people consuming health care, the average remains the same.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

And, as I'm sure you've read, many people with an individual policy are paying close to 10 K a year just in premiums and deductibles (some, more than that).

I pay way more than that. So?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by case44

You should not have to be forced by the government (state or federal) to buy something you don't need.

No one seems to NEED health insurance until somehow, they do need it.

Get back to us when someone in your family has an accident, is diagnosed with a serious illness or disease, or suddenly needs surgery.