California to have first "Safe Injection" sites in the nation for Heroin users (Darwin: crime, house)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

If it works great, but the druggies also shoot up away from the clinics, so it does not always change the problem. Now if it does Great.

Will CA put the same standards, practices, requirements Portugal and Switzerland have in place?

How do you know they also shoot up away from clinics? And regarding your second claim, about Portugal and Switzerland, why don't you tell us what the standards, practices and requirements are in those Countries? It would appear that you know since you are asking if California will have similar rules, so please share this wealth of knowledge with us, I would be interested in learning more about them

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And my response to you did nothing more than point out the error of your categorical assignment to “progressives”. It's not a progressive/conservative issue. It's a general social safety program ... not just to serve addicts. It was written out very clearly. Either you can process that the benefits are to the community at large - and not just to addicts - or you can't ... couldn't be made more clear how safe sites protect the community.

yep, I'm waiting for our friends here to start claiming that putting soap dispensers and toilet paper in public restrooms is a liberal plot, clearly intended to enable the "lower class" who don't carry sani wipes and toilet paper with them; after all if we quit handing out toilet paper the poor just might stop pooping

[DCMann2]

Harm reduction programs are effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17132577

Unfortunately the full study is behind a pay wall but there are other studies that support harm reduction and are free.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by expatCA

If it works great, but the druggies also shoot up away from the clinics, so it does not always change the problem. Now if it does Great.

Will CA put the same standards, practices, requirements Portugal and Switzerland have in place?

Even if addicts also shootup away from the sponsored sites ... each time they do access the clinic is one less syringe in the playground bushes ... one less body in the park porti-potty ... one bucket of puke less on your street corner ... etc.

So yeah, it does change the problem.

[Tulemutt]

So, I often remark how anecdotal stories provide interesting “color commentary” in discussions but are no substitute for research studies and such. True. But here I'll share an anecdotal story that very clearly demonstrates the issue's nuances.

Friend of mine (yeah really ... no not me) enlisted in the Army in ‘64. Did 6 years. Two tours Vietnam as a Ranger in-country. I don't want to over identify him so I will just say he holds several Purple Hearts and other individual awards for heroism under fire ... including one of the nation's most prestigious awards short of Medal of Honor. Returned from his second tour on a gurney and spent a few months in military hospital. Got used to morphine and demerol. Took his addiction, acquired in service as a result of his service connected wounds, on to civilian life.

This man, who had literally carried fellow combatants off the battlefield under withering fire while sustaining multiple hits, ended up robbing drugstores with a gun at times for several years ... until he was finally caught, tried, and imprisoned for a few years. That's where he ended up getting straight again, in spite of all the drugs available to him in the joint.

Fast forward: married, kid (nice kid too), educated in a highly skilled trade where he became a shop foreman overseeing several dozens of highly skilled and paid workers producing parts for machines we all use at times and which machines we trust our lives to. No room for slop. Earned about $150,000 annually when he retired about 10 years ago in another state (not California).

Former drug addict. OD'd a couple times but was resucitated. Alive and well all these years later. Absolutely supports safe injection sites. He knows how lives can go up ... then down ... and then, with luck and resources, back up again.

[Tulemutt]

Here's a pretty thorough article on the topic to answer all those questions some of you readers have (looking at you, expat ...)

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...ors_picks=true

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

How do you know they also shoot up away from clinics? And regarding your second claim, about Portugal and Switzerland, why don't you tell us what the standards, practices and requirements are in those Countries? It would appear that you know since you are asking if California will have similar rules, so please share this wealth of knowledge with us, I would be interested in learning more about them

I know drug users and many do so multiple times a day.

YOU claim Portugal and Switzerland are wonderful examples, so don't shift the requirement to prove your point with evidence. Not doings o usually indicates hear say being posted.What evidence and supporting info do YOU have? Please share your wealth of knowledge and the source or admit you are just posting with no facts to back it up. I asked I did not claim anything about those countries, you did.

Lets see what do they say "put up or .....".

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

I know drug users and many do so multiple times a day.

YOU claim Portugal and Switzerland are wonderful examples, so don't shift the requirement to prove your point with evidence. Not doings o usually indicates hear say being posted.What evidence and supporting info do YOU have? Please share your wealth of knowledge and the source or admit you are just posting with no facts to back it up. I asked I did not claim anything about those countries, you did.

Lets see what do they say "put up or .....".

You know drug users so well that you know 'where' they shoot up?

I didn't claim anything about Portugal or Switzerland were wonderful examples of anything. You asked if US safe injection sites would have the same rules as those in Portugal or Switzerland so I asked you to tell us what the rules were in those two countries.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Haven't heard from any mods in about a year. Posts sometimes get “orphaned” - removed because they are responses to other posts removed. I'm not aware of any deletions in this forum as a reaction to anything I've written.

Sure!

It's a general social safety program ... not just to serve addicts. It was written out very clearly. Either you can process that the benefits are to the community at large - and not just to addicts - or you can't ... couldn't be made more clear how safe sites protect the community.

I agree! Safe sites are just helping get rid of the garbage. It's like a dump. You bring your garbage to the dump, it gets sorted out, and it's off the streets.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Here's a pretty thorough article on the topic to answer all those questions some of you readers have (looking at you, expat ...)

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...ors_picks=true

Vox is not a reliable source of information. Very politically slanted, and light on data.

Got any other sources?