California to have first "Safe Injection" sites in the nation for Heroin users (taxes, costs)

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by DCMann2

Harm reduction programs are effective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17132577

Unfortunately the full study is behind a pay wall but there are other studies that support harm reduction and are free.

Can you summarize at least?

What are injections sites effective at doing? What does "harm reduction" entail within that study?

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

My take: Let them overdose. If they shoot up and die, put them in a pauper's grave in some junkyard, and let Darwin have his way.

Pretty cold and short-sighted to assume "junkies" don't have families, friends, or other loved ones who would provide them with a proper burial. You think everyone who uses heroin is homeless, and wouldn't have anyone to claim them? True of many, but certainly not all... and if it were my loved one, I would make sure they at least had some dignity in death.

Even if they didn't have a support system, you have an attitude like they're subhuman, and undeserving of respect even in death. They were once "normal people" too, and your views might change if it were someone close to you. I had a (not heroin) drug problem myself at one time, and it was the love and support of my family that helped me recover quickly and fully. Twenty+ years later, I have multiple degrees and a great job that contributes positively to society. ANYONE can become an addict. Yes, even YOU under the "right" circumstances; so get off your high horse, please.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by MLSFan

give them an overdose, let them die happy and society won't have to worry about them

Another cold heart, I see. And you think more addicts wouldn't materialize to take their place? This is like suggesting we kill off all poor people, because certainly nobody else would become poor in the future. Once this current batch is gone, our problems are solved! Yeaaaah, okay.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Hey relax man, you've already had two of your comments deleted by mods today, unless you're going for a hat trick or something.

I don't care for the "rationale" for the program. I just care that these people die off as quickly as possible. Government funded or not. The world is better off without them, and if the state wants to quicken their path to a dirt nap, I'm all for it.

See? We're on the same team!

Again, and this time more slowly for those with comprehension problems...

You
cannot
kill
off
drug
abuse.

It will keep coming back, and taking more victims, until we address WHY it's a problem and how to (at least partially) solve it for the long run. And because we will NEVER eradicate 100% of the problem, reducing the harm inflicted upon society as a whole is GOOD FOR US. Saying you don't care for the "rationale" is about as willfully ignorant as it comes, for chrissakes.

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Even if addicts also shootup away from the sponsored sites ... each time they do access the clinic is one less syringe in the playground bushes ... one less body in the park porti-potty ... one bucket of puke less on your street corner ... etc.

So yeah, it does change the problem.

Exactly. They need to think of it like public recycling bins - sure, some folks will still throw their recyclables in the garbage (or on the ground), but at least SOME/most will use the bins available. And the more items we have being recycled, the better. This doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" deal, which is why it's called reduction rather than elimination.

[MLSFan]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Exactly. They need to think of it like public recycling bins - sure, some folks will still throw their recyclables in the garbage (or on the ground), but at least SOME/most will use the bins available. And the more items we have being recycled, the better. This doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" deal, which is why it's called reduction rather than elimination.

then reduce the number of drug addicts, arrest them and put the in jail where they can enjoy their crime with other addicts

unless they are paying hefty fines, they aren't benefitting the rest of us for their drug habits... drug money is not going to govt services

and I rather the govt not be in the business of making money selling drugs so these "safe zones" don't work for me

[eliza61nyc]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Yeah, because throwing drug addicts in jail (where even MORE drugs are readily available) is the way to solve this problem... c'mon people, have we learned NOTHING in the last 100 or so years?

And for those who oppose these safe injection sites, I would like to hear your reasons why. In fact, I'd like to see if you even understand what they provide. Believe it or not, they are a good thing.

Nope we have not.

[eliza61nyc]

Originally Posted by MLSFan

then reduce the number of drug addicts, arrest them and put the in jail where they can enjoy their crime with other addicts

unless they are paying hefty fines, they aren't benefitting the rest of us for their drug habits... drug money is not going to govt services

and I rather the govt not be in the business of making money selling drugs so these "safe zones" don't work for me

Yes because that locking them up, works oh so well.

We did that with the crack epidemic and you see the results of that.


Now Pa is also grappling with safe injections sites issue. here's the thing about mass incarceration (and this is just Pa, I don't know about California)

1) ON average (and this is average) it cost about 40K a year to house a prisoner in state facility and 26K per prisoner per year in the local county lock up. I find it interesting that in terms of cost folks say they don't want their money "wasted" on addict but will support the more expensive options. Prison is a colossal waste of tax money.

2) drug induce crimes usually means the addict is back out on the street relatively soon and we've done nothing. the reality is locking them up has not helped them one iota, all you've done is wasted about 40K


this opiod crisis is a multi prong problem, we've got to stop with this "reactionary" solution. I'm not sure if providing safe injection sites are the answer but

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Pretty cold and short-sighted to assume "junkies" don't have families, friends, or other loved ones who would provide them with a proper burial. You think everyone who uses heroin is homeless, and wouldn't have anyone to claim them? True of many, but certainly not all... and if it were my loved one, I would make sure they at least had some dignity in death.

Even if they didn't have a support system, you have an attitude like they're subhuman, and undeserving of respect even in death. They were once "normal people" too, and your views might change if it were someone close to you. I had a (not heroin) drug problem myself at one time, and it was the love and support of my family that helped me recover quickly and fully. Twenty+ years later, I have multiple degrees and a great job that contributes positively to society. ANYONE can become an addict. Yes, even YOU under the "right" circumstances; so get off your high horse, please.

Hey if they have families who will allow them to go to "safe injections sites" and not actually get them real help, then it's their families who are "pretty cold and short-sighted" IMO.

Honestly, junkies are a net drain on society, this is a fact.

- They don't pay taxes. They can't be employed, so they don't work and are completely dependent on the state to survive.
- They cost MORE taxes than the average citizen.
- They commit more crimes due to their addictions (which further stresses the tax system).

You can say "Oh they deserve dignity and care", that's just bleeding heart feelings devoid of actual facts which is, junkies are not good for society in general and do not contribute to the greater good. Safe injection sites are just a means to support further drug abuse.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Again, and this time more slowly for those with comprehension problems...

You
cannot
kill
off
drug
abuse.

It will keep coming back, and taking more victims, until we address WHY it's a problem and how to (at least partially) solve it for the long run. And because we will NEVER eradicate 100% of the problem, reducing the harm inflicted upon society as a whole is GOOD FOR US. Saying you don't care for the "rationale" is about as willfully ignorant as it comes, for chrissakes.

I know you can't kill off drug abuse. Where did I ever say that?

All I'm advocating is that they kill themselves off faster so they are on this planet for less time, so they don't add further burden to society.

That is how they are reducing the harm inflicted upon society, by dying off faster. A pauper's grave is far cheaper than 12-24 months of safe injection site sessions.