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You're not only wrong (the last population for whom Housing First might work are the "most disruptive") but your references apply to maybe 1% of vagrants and are outdated, extremely expensive, have no long term benefit, proven to be failures, and heavily criticized... Ralph DaCosta Nunez, Professor at Columbia University, predicted Housing First is destined to fail as statistics in New York City prove. Housing First Doesn’t Work: The Homeless Need Community Support
/sigh you really should read the article before you assume by the title that it supports your hypothesis. "Nunez recommended a three-tiered solution. He said “of course Housing First,” for families and individuals who just need housing. But there also needs to be a Housing Second option for folks who need education or other job training and placement assistance. Lastly, there needs to be a Housing Third option for individuals and families with problems that compound their job and/or housing situation. Those requiring the Housing Third model often have other complicated challenges including substance abuse, generational poverty, and mental or physical illness."
That ^ is exactly what Tulemutt was describing when he referred to 'housing first'
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native
Harvard Professor Dr. Sharam Kohan, a social policy expert and economist, compared the Housing First model to Panelák of the former communist countries that tried to end homelessness by providing permanent and unconditional public housing. Dr. Kohan criticized Housing First model for following Panelák's failed philosophy and approaches. Dr. Kohan points to a growing number of reports from communities that have implemented Housing First programs which are "credited with creating slums and slumlord. Housing First Lacks True Merit
The author of this article fully supports 'housing first' as described in the HuffPo article but claims that the severely mentally ill prevent different challenges and should not be managed by HUD "Then, mental health agencies should be charged with housing this population, instead of housing agencies such as HUD. The reality is that a person with chronic and debilitating psychiatric disability is a “mentally ill person” which takes precedence over other conditions such as homelessness. We should not address this population with secondary labels such as “homeless” or “criminal” or “prisoner,” even if they are homeless or imprisoned for commission of a crime. The proper term should be “mentally ill person” and the proper authority to care for such persons should be mental health agencies. Centralizing the caring for mentally ill persons and placing mental health agencies in charge of caring for their safety, housing, food, clothing, and health care needs would be the most effective method to reduce chronic homelessness." Did you actually read that before you posted it to support your position?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native
On July 31, 2011, Prof. Victoria Stanhope, Ph.D., of New York University School of Social Work and Prof. Kerry Dunn, J.D., Ph.D., of University of New England School of Social Work, published “The curious case of Housing First; The limits of evidence-based policy” in the International Journal of Law and Psychiatry. Housing First has been criticized on its failure to address broader service outcomes, In a rapid review and document analysis of Housing First scholarly literature in the US and Canada, it has been shown that these literature are severely lacking in the implementation and explicit mention of Harm Reduction.
Oh Noooo! Another one that you might have misinterpreted: "The findings related to housing stability and reductions in service have translated into considerable cost savings. The NYHS study demonstrated that Housing First consumers generated less housing and service costs than those in continuum programs Another study in Seattle calculated that 95 Housing First clients reduced their service costs by a total of $4 million compared to the year prior to their enrollment . Over 40 cities have now demonstrated cost savings using Housing First and other permanent supported housing programs to serve the chronically homeless ..." So where does it say that housing first is a failure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Native
So now that you've embarrassed yourself again, it's time to GET TOUGH and implement the ONLY solution: Offer the vagrants room and board in return for work and sobriety. If they refuse and remain vagrants then incarcerate them and put them to work with mandatory sobriety. The work helps offset the cost of incarceration. If they are found to be incapable of being productive, we will take care of them . There are NO other solutions that are not prohibitively expensive.
You're not only wrong (the last population for whom Housing First might work are the "most disruptive") but your references apply to maybe 1% of vagrants and are outdated, extremely expensive, have no long term benefit, proven to be failures, and heavily criticized:
Harvard Professor Dr. Sharam Kohan, a social policy expert and economist, compared the Housing First model to Panelák of the former communist countries that tried to end homelessness by providing permanent and unconditional public housing. Dr. Kohan criticized Housing First model for following Panelák's failed philosophy and approaches. Dr. Kohan points to a growing number of reports from communities that have implemented Housing First programs which are "credited with creating slums and slumlord. Housing First Lacks True Merit
On July 31, 2011, Prof. Victoria Stanhope, Ph.D., of New York University School of Social Work and Prof. Kerry Dunn, J.D., Ph.D., of University of New England School of Social Work, published “The curious case of Housing First; The limits of evidence-based policy” in the International Journal of Law and Psychiatry. Housing First has been criticized on its failure to address broader service outcomes, In a rapid review and document analysis of Housing First scholarly literature in the US and Canada, it has been shown that these literature are severely lacking in the implementation and explicit mention of Harm Reduction.
So now that you've embarrassed yourself again, it's time to GET TOUGH and implement the ONLY solution: Offer the vagrants room and board in return for work and sobriety. If they refuse and remain vagrants then incarcerate them and put them to work with mandatory sobriety. The work helps offset the cost of incarceration. If they are found to be incapable of being productive, we will take care of them . There are NO other solutions that are not prohibitively expensive.
I agree with you but in Ca you're just yelling into the wind. The homeless here employ a lot of people from social workers to trash men and they're all union. Have you ever wondered why nothing's being done? Because if homelessness is solved lots of people lose their jobs. And those people are voters... homeless on the whole don't vote. Why else do you think liberals like Tule push housing first? A program where homeless get a room for free and just have to sit on their ass all day. That and they're enablers and bleeding hearts. Ergo workcamps will never ever happen here. Ca won't even hire them to pick up their own trash
I agree with you but in Ca you're just yelling into the wind. The homeless here employ a lot of people from social workers to trash men and they're all union. Have you ever wondered why nothing's being done? Because if homelessness is solved lots of people lose their jobs. And those people are voters... homeless on the whole don't vote. Why else do you think liberals like Tule push housing first? A program where homeless get a room for free and just have to sit on their ass all day. That and they're enablers and bleeding hearts. Ergo workcamps will never ever happen here. Ca won't even hire them to pick up their own trash
Exactly!
It is a huge money grab right now. $1B last year in LA and nothing to show for it except a 16% increase in homelessness. I know that I will be voting for politicians in my city who promise, either explicitly or implicitly, to reduce funding available for homeless to bare minimal levels and to enforce existing laws to move people off the streets and stop pretending that all these handouts costing us millions are doing anything but making the situation worse. I know it won’t do any good because those candidates will not win but it will be my protest vote.
Whoever is running Culver City just needs to take over the largest cities in the state and do exactly what they are successfully doing there. Don’t allow it, move ‘em out constantly and consistently, enforce the laws and just plain make it untenable to trash the sidewalks, streets and parks by setting up encampments full of nothing but criminality. The folks who are actually temporarily in that situation and able to move back into society will have access to resources to help them do so (a much smaller proportion than Tule posits) the rest will figure it out and leave when they get no benefits and constant harassment unless they move into a bare bones shelter with a work program, rehab or jail.
Where they go I don’t care, as long as the locals there maintain and enforce the same policy and programs and don’t give them any footholds to ruin that area. Let them set up camp in the desert somewhere as the only non harassment safe zone as long as they stay there. Slab City 2.0.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,652,632 times
Reputation: 14049
Of the 60 homeless who moved back into the Sepulveda Basin after they started the fire last week, only TWO of them accepted free housing. Those of you who claim that the homeless are a result of a housing shortage are absolutely wrong. Most of these people came from elsewhere and prefer to live outdoors like a pack of hyenas because that's the life they've been living for a very long time. So no, they didn't simply lose their home in L.A. within the past few years and suddenly find themselves on the street.
Of the 60 homeless who moved back into the Sepulveda Basin after they started the fire last week, only TWO of them accepted free housing. Those of you who claim that the homeless are a result of a housing shortage are absolutely wrong. Most of these people came from elsewhere and prefer to live outdoors like a pack of hyenas because that's the life they've been living for a very long time. So no, they didn't simply lose their home in L.A. within the past few years and suddenly find themselves on the street.
Housing First helps those who actually want help, but does nothing for the majority of the addicts living on the streets. They do try it and then leave.
Housing First helps those who actually want help, but does nothing for the majority of the addicts living on the streets. They do try it and then leave.
I volunteered at a skid row shelter where they told me this exact thing. They have plenty of beds but the homeless don't want them due to the no drug rules.
Most of these people came from elsewhere and prefer to live outdoors like a pack of hyenas because that's the life they've been living for a very long time.
You'd have to dispute the data out there--which has also been posted on this thread--and it doesn't sound as if you're able to do that.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,652,632 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now
You'd have to dispute the data out there--which has also been posted on this thread--and it doesn't sound as if you're able to do that.
No, I don't need to dispute anything. I've posted facts, along with a very reasonable inductive conclusion based on those facts. Nothing more to discuss, is there?
I volunteered at a skid row shelter where they told me this exact thing. They have plenty of beds but the homeless don't want them due to the no drug rules.
Which shelter? I ask because the only ones with empty beds are usually the ones where you leave with new friends, namely bedbugs and fleas
Which shelter? I ask because the only ones with empty beds are usually the ones where you leave with new friends, namely bedbugs and fleas
If that's true that's pretty pathetic of Ca with all our tax and sales tax money going to help the homeless they can't even supply clean bedding.
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